Well, I was took a look under the XJ12 today and guess what… its still
leaking from, I think, the rear main seal. I sealed the sandwich plate up
well with some RTV from Ford that was recommended in Kirby’s book, so I
doubt it can still be the sandwich plate.
Question, has anyone changed this seal with the engine still in the car? I
have found directions where someone used a “Sneaky Pete” tool to accomplish
it, but that was on a considerable older engine. Any suggestions?
I took down the oil pan and sandwich plate from the 1995 XJ12 today. The
end of the sandwich plate was leaking. I was just going to use some good
sealant on the sandwich plate to engine black surfaces and forgo the
original gasket. But seeing as how thins the contact areas
around the bolt
holes are I am having second thoughts about that.
Andy one know the best way to seal the sandwich plate and oil pans up so
they won’t leak?
-Chris
1974 XJ12C #13
1995 XJ12
1998 XJ8
2000 Jeep XJ
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Hi Chris,
I pulled, tore down and resealed/ modified my 1990 XJSC back in
96.
With a few exceptions, I dispensed with all the paper gaskets and
used Permatex ultra copper silicone sealant. To this day no
seeps, leaks or drips!
Most of the newer cars I work on (I have a shop)use the silicone
based products to seal the pans. The only place I have seen a
failure on these is the common rubber type seals they put over
the front and rear bearing caps that harden and shrink over time.
Toyota makes a really great product they use on their Auto
Transmissions to seal the pan. Really great stuff to use on the
TH400 where the hot exhaust is an inch away from the cork pan
gasket.
Good Luck
Sean McKee
1990 XJS sans ABS
Chris M wrote:
Well, I was took a look under the XJ12 today and guess what… its still
leaking from, I think, the rear main seal. I sealed the sandwich plate up
well with some RTV from Ford that was recommended in Kirby’s book, so I
doubt it can still be the sandwich plate.
Question, has anyone changed this seal with the engine still in the car? I
have found directions where someone used a “Sneaky Pete” tool to accomplish
it, but that was on a considerable older engine. Any suggestions?
I took down the oil pan and sandwich plate from the 1995 XJ12 today. The
end of the sandwich plate was leaking. I was just going to use some good
sealant on the sandwich plate to engine black surfaces and forgo the
original gasket. But seeing as how thins the contact areas
around the bolt
holes are I am having second thoughts about that.
Andy one know the best way to seal the sandwich plate and oil pans up so
they won’t leak?
-Chris
1974 XJ12C #13
1995 XJ12
1998 XJ8
2000 Jeep XJ
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
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In reply to a message from Chris M sent Fri 21 Mar 2003:
Hello Chris,
my 1993 XJ 12 has the same problem and I located the rear bearing
block sealing as the villain. There must be 2 rubber or o-ring
stripes between the bearing block and the crankcase. After cleaning
and degreasing the area I applied ultra copper sealant and now the
engine is almost dry ( One drop per week ).
But how did you manage to change the sandwichplate gasket?
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Hello, Chris. Re: rear main leak. A number of XJ-S list members have done
the rear main with the V12 engine in the car, with the front subframe
dropped. If you go this route, you’ll have to build an engine support tool
to suspend the engine while you do the work - a few 2" x 4"s, a few pieces
of 1/2" plywood, a pair of 10" forged 1/2" eye bolts, fender washers and
nuts (about $35.00 to build from scratch). Most replied to my inquiries
with advice that the V12 rear engine leak is most often either the oil
filter housing (o-rings, 5/16" FI hoses used on the oil bypass, or the brass
washer on the 3/4" plug) or the “hockey sticks” - the OEM seals on each side
of the rear crank bearing block that holds the bottom half of the rear main
seal (rope). Their general advice was to drop the rear bearing block, check
the rear main rope seal, and if not torn or gapped - even if blackened -
leave it alone, clean out the hockey stick recesses in the block and then
fill the recesses with Permatex Ultra Copper, apply Locktite #518 to the top
of the bearing block and re-install it, and reinstall the sandwich plate.
If you choose to replace the rear main, a sneaky pete would work with the
bearing block down. In reassembly, I used the new Jag Gortex sandwich plate
gasket without sealant, except that I put some Ultra at the joints where the
timing cover and the rear bearing block join the block. I replaced all the
o-rings in the oil pick-up and return pipes in the crankcase, and found a
significant improvement in hot oil pressure after reassembly. The old
o-rings were hard as rock and must have allowed a lot of leakage inside the
engine. I also found that one of the brass washers on one of the rearward
oil gallery plugs on the left side of the block was weeping oil and replaced
all the plug washers. When I reassembled the sandwich plate, I chased and
cleaned all the through block holes and all the bolts, sprayed them with
anarobic activator and installed all through block bolts with Permatex
Thread Sealant since the normal oil level in the engine appeared to be about
1 inch above the sandwich plate to block joint.
Jim Johnson
'88 XJ-S Coupe, V12 (Lucas CEI), TH400 (w/ B&M), DANA 2.87
Annapolis, Maryland, USA
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I don’t know the differences between the XJ40, and x300, but on teh X300 the
sandwich place can be removed with teh engine in teh car. You, however,
will still need to lift the engine and lower the steering rack, but other
than that its just tight work.
In reply to a message from Chris M sent Fri 21 Mar 2003:
Hello Chris,
my 1993 XJ 12 has the same problem and I located the rear bearing
block sealing as the villain. There must be 2 rubber or o-ring
stripes between the bearing block and the crankcase. After cleaning
and degreasing the area I applied ultra copper sealant and now the
engine is almost dry ( One drop per week ).
But how did you manage to change the sandwichplate gasket?
Tilo
1993 XJ 12 6.0
doctor-x
Sarnen, Switzerland
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event
Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
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Thanx. I have an engine hoist, so I will be good in that area. Also, on
the 1995 XJ12, it is possible to remove the sandwich plate and oil pan with
just lifting up the engine and dropping the steering rack. This really sux
because I just sealed up the oil pan and sandwich plate last week.
The locktite 518, what is it, and why apply it to the top?
-Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Johnson [mailto:jpjohnso@erols.com]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 8:29 AM
To: Chris M; Jag X300; Jag V12
Subject: Re: [v12-engine] RE: Sandwich plate and oil pan sealing –
Still leak from rear of engine
Hello, Chris. Re: rear main leak. A number of XJ-S list
members have done
the rear main with the V12 engine in the car, with the front subframe
dropped. If you go this route, you’ll have to build an engine
support tool
to suspend the engine while you do the work - a few 2" x 4"s, a few pieces
of 1/2" plywood, a pair of 10" forged 1/2" eye bolts, fender washers and
nuts (about $35.00 to build from scratch). Most replied to my inquiries
with advice that the V12 rear engine leak is most often either the oil
filter housing (o-rings, 5/16" FI hoses used on the oil bypass,
or the brass
washer on the 3/4" plug) or the “hockey sticks” - the OEM seals
on each side
of the rear crank bearing block that holds the bottom half of the
rear main
seal (rope). Their general advice was to drop the rear bearing
block, check
the rear main rope seal, and if not torn or gapped - even if blackened -
leave it alone, clean out the hockey stick recesses in the block and then
fill the recesses with Permatex Ultra Copper, apply Locktite #518
to the top
of the bearing block and re-install it, and reinstall the sandwich plate.
If you choose to replace the rear main, a sneaky pete would work with the
bearing block down. In reassembly, I used the new Jag Gortex
sandwich plate
gasket without sealant, except that I put some Ultra at the
joints where the
timing cover and the rear bearing block join the block. I
replaced all the
o-rings in the oil pick-up and return pipes in the crankcase, and found a
significant improvement in hot oil pressure after reassembly. The old
o-rings were hard as rock and must have allowed a lot of leakage
inside the
engine. I also found that one of the brass washers on one of the rearward
oil gallery plugs on the left side of the block was weeping oil
and replaced
all the plug washers. When I reassembled the sandwich plate, I chased and
cleaned all the through block holes and all the bolts, sprayed them with
anarobic activator and installed all through block bolts with Permatex
Thread Sealant since the normal oil level in the engine appeared
to be about
1 inch above the sandwich plate to block joint.
Jim Johnson
'88 XJ-S Coupe, V12 (Lucas CEI), TH400 (w/ B&M), DANA 2.87
Annapolis, Maryland, USA
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On Line Books and more !
In reply to a message from Chris M sent Fri 21 Mar 2003:
You might consider an oil additive that swells seals (if there is a
conventional seal where you are suspecting a leak).There may be
something recommended on bobistheoilguy.com . Another ‘‘mechanic in
a bottle’’ solution is to use the new ‘‘high mileage’’ oils now
available in places like the U.S. and Canada. Castrol has such an
animal and I know it contains seal swelling additives. Feedback on
forums imply that you may have to continue using such oils if you
begin - I have no way of validating that point. Of course, if it is
a major leak, I don’t think any one of the above will work.
I recently followed the posting of a fellow on an American site who
seemed to be very familiar with Jaguars, esp the XJ40 and X300/8’s.
I believe he stated at one time that Jag’s ‘‘liked’’ a diet of
Castrol. It could be something in their formulation that sets them
apart. Furthermore, my rather hazy memory seems to recall that
Jaguar was promoting Castrol in their products at one time but this
may not relect any technical advantages.
Personally, I have used Castrol products for many years in a Ford
Tempo, Dodge Intrepid, Volvo 240 and more recently X300 (cumulative
KM about 1,000,000) without any oil leakage except for the below
noted problems)
When my Volvo was new and again at about 300,000 km , it had some
seepage through the thread area where the oilpan bolts connected
with the block. I fixed the leaks by removing the bolts in the
seepage area and sealed the threads with high heat resistant
silicon. They have not leaked since.
Please note, I have no affiliation with Castrol, I just think they
make good motor oils.
Thats my two cents…–
The original message included these comments:
Andy one know the best way to seal the sandwich plate and oil pans up so
they won’t leak?
–
Dave J 1996 XJ6 (Canada)
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
In reply to a message from Dave J 1996 XJ6 (Canada) sent Fri 21 Mar 2003:
When my 96 X300 was under warranty, I had a small oil leak near the
left front of the oil pan/block seam. This was of concern to me,
and I was quite persistant with the dealer that it must be fixed
and made certain that my notification to them of this problem was
documented. After the second vist, they fixed the leak. They did
reomve three of the pan bolts and used some sort of clear silicone
compound on the threads and re-installed. The leak was gone, and
mow 70K miles and four years later I am dry. So, this is also a
workable technique on Jaguars.
By the way, are the rear main seals on 6.0 liter V-12’s the same as
on the 5.3 Ltr engines? I thought I read somewhere that they were
different.–
The original message included these comments:
When my Volvo was new and again at about 300,000 km , it had some
seepage through the thread area where the oilpan bolts connected
with the block. I fixed the leaks by removing the bolts in the
seepage area and sealed the threads with high heat resistant
silicon. They have not leaked since.
In reply to a message from Dave J 1996 XJ6 (Canada) sent Fri 21 Mar 2003:
When my 96 X300 was under warranty, I had a small oil leak near the
left front of the oil pan/block seam. This was of concern to me,
and I was quite persistant with the dealer that it must be fixed
and made certain that my notification to them of this problem was
documented. After the second vist, they fixed the leak. They did
reomve three of the pan bolts and used some sort of clear silicone
compound on the threads and re-installed. The leak was gone, and
mow 70K miles and four years later I am dry. So, this is also a
workable technique on Jaguars.
By the way, are the rear main seals on 6.0 liter V-12’s the same as
on the 5.3 Ltr engines? I thought I read somewhere that they were
different.