tire rack has a caution on its website re the Vred Sport Classic…as a summer tire only…and a caution that if the tire is exposed to cold…below 40 F…the cord will be damaged so much as to make the tire unsafe…and that it should not bear weight until warmed…that would mean winters blocked up…or wheel/tire removed…??? anyone see that…what about it…is there more than one Vred 185-16? By the way anyone using the Blockey 185VR- 16 in tire? Nice tread …
Nick
Well, those tires will never grace my Rover.
Coker Tire has different instructions. They say if the temps drop below 20°F, the Sprint Classics must be allowed to gradually return to 40°F or above before doing anything with the tire that might flex it. https://www.cokertire.com/vredestein-sprint-classic-narrow-tread.html
Unless the formulation has changed, I’d lean towards Coker on this, since they’ve been selling these tires for a long, long time and Tire Rack is a johnny-come-lately, relatively speaking.
That being said, this isn’t unusual for many high-performance track only compounds. But for a vintage car not being taken for track days, those tires would have to make it stick like a Lotus Elise to be worthwhile, unless I lived where winters are usually very mild.
Dave
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Nick,
I’m confused. Where on the Tirerack web site did you find the warning you described above. I found the following NOTE in the description of the Vredestein Sprint Classic:
Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels, or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
As you can see, the problem doesn’t arise until 20 degrees, not the 40 degrees in your quote. This is what I remember from before, and it a pretty standard warning for summer tyres in my experience. It also seems to be similar to the Coker warning…
-David
the Tire Rack caution says…“the Sprint Classic is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures,” and does further say if ever below 20 de F…must be brought back up to 40F for 24 hrs. I take the "in near and below " (which…near could mean say 35, or below 40 ) to mean any cold weather NEAR freezing would mean the tire should not be even STORED…with car weight on it…or flexed in ANY manner, even adjusting tire pressure. This is all very restrictive at any temp NEAR freezing. It further says any such flexion can result in the tire becoming completely unusable. So, regardless of the 20F de figure stated, If it needs to be brought to 40 F for 24 hrs…I’d be inclined NOT to have the tire ON and weighted, on a car at anything below 40, certainly anything below freezing. I suppose if you jack the car, or remove tire/wheels then possibly OK, but I’d also be cautions about how many cycles of cold, then warmer, thru a winter in cold storage , and what that may do. How many, and how much…Heat cycles are quite important and critical in race tires. It puts this tire out of consideration for me, esp when there are other choices.
Nick
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I’m very pleased to see that Tire Rack is now offering the Vredestein Sprint Classic in a 185 R16 vintage size for $292 plus free shipping. Their entry into this vintage-sized tire market appears to have forced others to reduce their prices by about $75 per tire to remain competitive. I hope that Tire Rack continues this trend and eventually offers other brands of vintage-sized tires such as those made by Pirelli and Michelin.
As for the summer rating and the 20 degree warning, this is something most of us can live with. My XK120 already goes into hibernation from the late Fall to Spring due to our salted roads in the upper Midwest. I don’t think I’ve ever driven the Jaguar at temperatures below 30 degrees. If I were currently in need of a set of new tires, I would be seriously tempted by this offering from Tire Rack.
Nick,
Thanks for the explanation - I now see what you are saying. The Tirerack statement is the same for all tyres defined as “Summer Tires”, and similar statements are common on other Tire Vendors sites such as Coker. The way I read the warning is in two parts:
-
The tires are not intended to be used at temperatures near and below freezing (like you, I read this is as 35/40 degrees and below). The compounds used in summer tires become very hard at low temperatures, and do not grip well. As such they can make driving dangerous. The tires are not permanently damaged by such use, but you, or the car, may be!
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If the tires are exposed to temperatures below 20 degrees, and loaded/flexed in any way, they may suffer permanent damage. To avoid damage to tires exposed to such temperatures they must not be loaded (i.e. even fitted to a rim and pressurized), and then slowly warmed before being flexed in any way.
These are clearly significant restrictions that impact anyone living in climates that drop below 40 degrees. I have summer tires on a couple of my cars, and don’t take them out of the garage if temperatures are that low. The temperature inside my garage rarely if ever drops below 40 degrees and certainly not to 20 degrees, so I consider myself safe. However, I can see that a lot of forum members would be affected by these restrictions, and was surprised the first time I came across them. Probably like most of us, my daily driver has all-season tires, so I never came across this issue before.
-David
Hey Nick
I posted a picture here about two years ago of my car after returning from a spirited run in December, temperatures were in the low 30’s. I’m running the Verds on it, I’m still here and so are the tires.
The whole thing seems like a legal disclaimer to me. Sort of don’t go outside you may die from everything out there statement.
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anyone on the Blockley?
I am not especially knowledgeable about tires, but I would be very surprised if any damage could be done to Vredestein Classics by running them in cold temperatures. Certainly, the tread would not perform as well as in warmer temps, or as well as winter tires or all season tires in the cold, but the idea that the tires themselves would be permanently damaged seems like a stretch.
an odd post Bob…puzzled by your opinion: …you can have your non expert opinion…but the statements made by the tire experts are quite clear in what they say, as paraphrased in this thread above, and caution that should the tire be used in those temps it will be subject to failure. Plain, simple. It says what it says. You of course can do what you will. From Coker, and Tire Rack: “Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels, or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle. Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Grand Touring Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. While compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.” I suppose quite a few are usin this tire, and do not take the winter precautions…and have not had a failure…any listers with experience chime in please. I am lookin to obtain a set of new tires for my XK, so doin the research.
Nick
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I readily admit my lack of expertise, but I am still skeptical. There is no warning on the Vredestein web site (that I could find) which makes similar claims. In searching the web, the concern seems to be directed to “ultra high performance tires” with soft rubber compounds. I have not seen any information which indicates that the Vredestein Sprint Classics have this type of tread compound even though they are listed as summer tires. So, as I see it, the issue is whether this particular tire falls into the category of tires which cannot be driven in winter temps without damaging the tire. I sent an inquiry to Vredestein and will share any substantive response I receive.
Here is an excerpt from Consumer Reports on this issue as it relates to some General Motors cars with performance tires.
"Anything made with rubber can become more rigid as temperatures get very low, as evidenced by some ultra-high-performance summer tires being used by General Motors and other manufacturers on some vehicles. These tires not only lose grip in cold weather, but they risk cracking, compromising longevity.
This is a significant concern for buyers in northern climes, with GM notably advising not to drive such vehicles during winter chills at the risk of developing damaging cracks. It is likewise important to owners looking forward to spring drives in their performance cars to inspect the tires thoroughly.
GM bulletin #13-03-10-001A: “Information on Tire Cold Weather Cracking” – (Jan 30, 2014) advises “avoid driving, moving, or test-driving vehicles equipped with high-performance summer-only tires below 20º F as operating at these temperatures can cause damage to the tires.” The car models affected include the 2012-2014 Buick Regal GS, 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport, 2012-2014 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 and Z/28, 2014-2014 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, and the 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and Stingray Z51, and SS sedan.
In GM’s quest to deliver the ultimate handling in these cars, they built performance tires with essentially a racing compound to deliver the goods. These tires are great for driving in temperate areas and are ideally suited for track use, but the practicality of the tires stops there.
Reaching out to a GM tire supplier, Pirelli, a spokesman explained that the performance tread compound becomes so stiff on such tires that it can lead to cracking when deformed in cold weather. In measuring the hardness of numerous brands of summer tires at 0º F, we have found the tread becomes almost inflexible and the tires lose their bounce when dropped. The cracking is characterized as cosmetic, but in our experience any cracking shouldn’t be taken lightly as it can evolve over time. If there is crack, you should replace the tire. (GM’s service bulletin also recommends discarding a tire with cracking.)"
thanks Bob…interesting…will be ood to see what Vred says…
As a quick update on this topic, Vredestein never replied to me. Maybe they are on their extended European vacation. If I hear from them, I will let your know.
After reading this thread I checked to see if there’s a similar situation for modern tires on modern cars. Much to my surprise I found this for summer-only higher performance tires from Michelin,PIrelli, Bridgeston, Continental, etc. Because the wording was the same across all brands, it’s my guess this is a TireRack disclaimer.
I’ve seen similar warnings from OEM automotive manufacturers as well (ex, corvette owners manual). So, if you do occasionally drive your xk in dry/cold weather (I do), we should probably stick to all-season rated tires. It’s a shame because I’ve heard only good things about the latest versions of classic car tires such as Pirelli Cinturato and Vredestein Sprint.
Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.
Yup…as you re-stated. There a quite a few “summer” tires., I see many that use these “summer” tires on their Jaguar, whether XK, or E: I…hope they are in warm places. I would take the warning seriously,. a tire that comes apart at speed can have very bad outcome. In the 16 in size there are only a few, in 15 in XKE sizes a few more. Availability changes year to year…what was avail 1-3 yrs ao may not be available now., Be aware of the DOT date of manufacture…some sellers have new old stock tires…that does not work so well for tires since the useful life is 6-10 years from manufacture. (depends a little but not entirely on the tires environment) This has NOTHING to do outside exterior appearance, sidewall cracks or not…it is internal, in the tread to carcass flexible glue…the glue dries out over time and becomes brittle…,then the tread will fly off at speed. So far I do not have a manufacturer statement on this…unless the Tire Rack and other vendor warning does come from a manufacturer.
Nick
I have Blockley radials on both my 120FHC and my Healey 100, plus two of my friends have them on their 140 OTS and 120 OTS.
They are one of the few tyres that are V rated, as against H speed rated.
Also you have to bear in mind that NOT all 185/16 are actually the same diameter. The Avon is the smallest and the Pirelli the largest. Longstone tyres in UK will tell you to buy the Pirelli Cinturato as the Michelin X is similar in size to the original crossply 5.90/16 but not really for sports cars, although period correct. They do not sell the Blockley as they are direct rivals. There is nothing worse than seeing one of these cars with fat low profile tyres like a 205/70/16 on an XK, although on an E Type a slightly fatter Tyre does look ok as it fills the arches better.
