Getting to grips with my (new to me) Mk2 3.8 project. Plate says transmission is JBC7388. Plate on the gearbox says BW250.
Chassis is LHD P217427BW
Stuck in neutral and leaks a lot of fluid from a solenoid mounted on the RHS. First of many problems I suspect.
Looking for a workshop manual or similar. And tips of course. Much wiring missing too.
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Borg Warner, DG250?
David
Yes, it’s a DG (Detroit Gear) 250. The “BW” on the chassis number denotes Borg Warner - made the transmission. Paul.
An auto trans expert told me they are similar to Ford FMX, parts interchangeable. Not sure if that is correct, however.
I do not think this is correct
The BW8/12 is almost identical to an FMX, and indeed has the same “soft” overhaul parts
The DG150/250 has quite different internal arrangements to the later BW
Unfortunately for the OP, the earlier trans is much disliked, as it is very hard to stop leaking, and parts and rebuilders are (even more scarce than BW, which have ever so slightly different hard parts than an FMX)
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Thanks everyone for your input. Helpful, but now comes the hard part. I do not have the cash right now for a 5 speed manual upgrade, so have to work with what I have. The DG250.
Any ideas on where to get a) a manual for this and b) overhaul parts, like seals etc.?
There seems to be very little anywhere online. I am in Canada, so North America preferred from a shipping point of view, but really not important.
Anyone used the EBay store 1954Jaguars?
Thanks,
Dave
when you say “stuck in neutral” what does that mean?
can you mechanically engage the shifter from underneath ? (dont run yrself over)
I think their is a mob in UK that does full OH on these (could be Whitehouse?)
If it is needing a full OH, now might be the time for a swap
Studebaker had a similar DG unit in their cars, and later BW8 as well, but apparently it is slightly different to the Jaguar DG…and cannot be rebuilt by the UK mob
details in Archives somewhere
the leaking OD solenoid issue is very common, and parts can be had to fix that
depends a bit on how confident you are delving into the insides of auto trans
How detailed is the MK2 FSM ?
If it won’t come out of neutral the first thing to check is that the selector on the 'box is moving to the appropriate positions when the selector lever in the car is moved.
I haven’t had to do anything to my 'box so I don’t know how the position of the selector lever gets transmitted to the 'box but it’s an obvious first place to look if you haven’t already.
And if you’re leaking a lot of fluid have a look to see if you have any left! I had a BW35 back in the 1970s which leaked, of course, and when it ran low on fluid it deselected the gears and dropped into neutral. Especially when cold.
I have got one of these on my garage floor removed from a USA 3.8 LHD.
I won’t be using it but I am in Ireland…
My mistake re FMX. It was 20+ years ago, so probably did refer to BW8\12. I do recall there was a mod made to the selector mechanism to more easily allow the selector to be taken out of park if there was pressure on the propshaft as when a car was parked on an incline. Might have occurred about the time of the Mk8. Perhaps the issue is merely with that part of the box, ( leaks not withstanding). Surely leaks could be cured with modern products and techniques. I recall a discussion with a mechanic here in NZ who worked for Archer and Lupp, a big Jag dealer back in the day. They used to service Diplomatic Service cars (Mk8, 9)and he said after a service, the cars were left on a hoist overnight with a dropsheet beneath and no fluids were allowed to drip overnight; if they did, the mechanic had to perform the service again until it was right! So it can be done.
I think the issue with the DG is largely a lack of parts, and skilled persons to work upon them
a couple of good guys in our club tried pretty hard to stop the DG in their MK9s leaking, without much success as I recall
talk of speedi-sleeves being needed on some shafts
having said that, I took apart and studied an old BW8, prior to working upon mine
( I gathered a lot of info on the BW8…it has the same valve body as a '51 Ford-o-matic, tracing its heritage)
What I found is that refitting good quality modern seals will stop them leaking, but requires the transmission to be stripped to bare bones
By far the biggest issue is that the main “drums” are a wear item, as they have a piston-like arrangement inside with metal and hard plastic sealing rings.
If wear occurs within the drum, the gearbox will not maintain internal pressure…
its very hard to find someone who can assess these (the apparent test is run fingernail)
No hard spare parts exist that are not NOS for either of these trans
Tried to move the shifter and it seems stuck (in neutral), and yes, I have the car up on a lift, so no danger of running myself over. Would make for a very bad insurance claim!
I assume that it cannot move with the right lockout switches being set correctly (reverse etc.) and possibly hydraulic pressure from pumps / running.
Catch 22 issue really.
Rear rhs of the casing is an electromagnet switch - speed hold? Where should the wire be connected?
Other lockouts like pressure switch (and it’s associated solenoid), intermediate gear selector switch (and it’s associated solenoid) and throttle switch. Same questions apply - where are they?! So little information.
Thanks for your continued support.
The Irish gearbox is likely not economical to ship. Thanks anyway.
Found a hard parts supplier in France on ebay.
Cheers,
Dave
I had the same trans in my 59 XK150. Years ago I found a 1959 Chiltons repair manual with the same trans as a Studebaker used up until 1955. It has the anti-creep and hill hold functions described and adjustments. I can copy the pages and send them to you.
Hi Dave,
Ebay always has a dozen or so Jaguar transmission manuals listed. I have found this one to be very good.
Another published by Jaguar:
Best regards,
Tom Brady
Thanks all for the help - have a manual on the way and some reprinted Studebaker pages to help. Going to remove the gearbox with engine still in the car. Seems to be possible with proper supports etc…
Anyone know how many bolts there are fixing the bell housing to the engine block (not including the starter)? This will allow me to remove them all before trying to gently pry off the unit.
Then the rebuild can begin in ernest.
Thanks, D
Fifteen (excluding the starter hardware). I don’t recall where I downloaded the following image from so I can’t provide credit to the author.
Regards,
Brian
Here is a parts source.
Here is a parts list for model DG150/200/250
Here is a parts list for model 8 & 12.
I’m likely to be corrected but was the same transmission used in the Checker cabs? If so you might find parts and service more easily looking at this sector. Otherwise as noted above, the expert for these is Graham Whitehouse Autos in Dudley, England.