[xj] a word on Daimler/VDP

In the USA and Canada, the Daimler car is re-badged as a Vanden
Plas. This appears to lead to some confusion as to what the
term ‘Vanden Plas’ means in other markets.

In Australia, Vanden Plas is a term which refers to a Jaguar or a
Daimler with specific trim options, which include bucket seats, and
leather door panels with recessed pockets.

Normal Daimler cars in Australia do NOT have these features. In
fact, here, there is often precious little difference between a
Jaguar and the Daimler variant, often minor details such as
carpeted door trim and reading lamps are the only distinction.

Some weeks ago, it was suggested that it was incorrect to call a
lister’s car ‘Daimler Double Six Vanden Plas’, and that such a car
would correctly be called just ‘Vanden Plas’. This is not so. The
DD6 VDP is in fact a combination of two things - the normal Daimler
Double Six motor car, plus the special Vanden Plas coachbuilt
options of bucket seats, wood inlay, etc.

English market cars which were given the Vanden Plas designation
had special features… eg, were sent into the VDP section for
better paint (more sanding, more coats), had chrome sidestripes,
etc. American Vanden Plas cars were just made in the normal Jaguar
fashion.

So yes, it is correct that most Vanden Plas cars (those in the
American market) are just rebadged Daimlers and are identical to
them. The problem arises when one has a Daimler in an English
market which carries the additional coachwork specification of VDP.
I suppose in North America, such a car would be a ‘VDP VDP’, or
a ‘VDP + extras’.

Interestingly, in the XJ40 range, an XJ40 Daimler has vanden plas
features such as bucket seats just as a matter of course. For an
xj40, it IS correct to say that Daimler and Vanden Plas seats are
the same thing.–
sovman
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In reply to a message from sovman sent Thu 17 Feb 2005:

I am sure others will weigh in here, but according to
Thorley’s ‘‘Original Jaguar XJ6’’ pg.120, there were 401 Daimler
Double Six Vanden Plas models built between March 1979 and October
1982 for the UK, Australian, and Japanese markets with UK models
having vins of SADDDRLW3CC for RHD and SADDDRLW4CC for LHD, and
9628 Daimler Double Six models built between March 1979 and
November 1992 for the UK and Australian markets with UK models
having vins of SADDDALW3CC for RHD and SADDDALW4CC for LHD.
I own a Belgian delivered 1986 Daimler Double Six with vin
SADDDRLW4CC444123 and every Series III option I have ever seen
listed for the pre-1988 V12s including chrome side molding, rear
fogs, took kit, reading lights, VDP ‘bucket’ seats, overcarpets,
inset instruments, and headlight wipers. On the boot are ‘Daimler’
& ‘Double Six’ badges. So…is it a Vanden Plas? The R and W in
the vin agree with thorley’s list for UK DD6 VDPs, but the year of
manufacture does not.
Some have suggested that a car must have a VDP boot badge to be a
VDP model regardless of the vin; anyone know if the 79 to 82 DD6
VDPs had such a badge for all markets or if any were produced
without the Vanden Plas badge?–
The original message included these comments:

In the USA and Canada, the Daimler car is re-badged as a Vanden
Plas. This appears to lead to some confusion as to what the
term ‘Vanden Plas’ means in other markets.
In Australia, Vanden Plas is a term which refers to a Jaguar or a
Daimler with specific trim options, which include bucket seats, and
leather door panels with recessed pockets.
Normal Daimler cars in Australia do NOT have these features. In
fact, here, there is often precious little difference between a
Jaguar and the Daimler variant, often minor details such as
carpeted door trim and reading lamps are the only distinction.
Some weeks ago, it was suggested that it was incorrect to call a


Phil W - 87XJ6, 86DDS, 85Sov, 74Etype, 67DR450, 67Mk2project
Arkansas, United States
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No, this is not always true. Canada and the US had different cars
carrying the VDP badge, always a 6 in the US, V12 in Canada. I’m not
sure about the early series 3 production, but up until 1987 the Canadian
V12 car was a Daimler Double Six badged as a Jaguar Vanden Plas, and not
carrying the side chrome mouldings.

The 1988-91 cars were UK market Jaguar Sovereign V12’s with some
upgraded features from the Daimler for the Canadian market. The most
noticeable difference is the 87 and prior cars had the Daimler style
seats, and the 88-91 had the Jaguar style seats. For the final Canadian
series of 100 cars in 1992 they were Daimler Double sixes rebadged as
VDP’s. Jaguar production stopped in 1991, so for 1992 the Daimlers were
used and “Jaguarized” with appropriate badges and decals. However, as
production went along they occasionally ran out of Jaguar specific
items, and Daimler was substituted. My 1992 VDP has a Daimler drivers
side floor mat, and I know of 2 other cars that do as well, all
interspersed throughout the years production. It seems to be a random
mix that determined which car got what floor mat.

I believe that the UK and Canadian market cars were not identically
equipped, as there were no options aside from colour in the Canadian/USA
market, the car came fully loaded. I am under the impression that UK
market Daimlers had some options like sunroof and cruise control that
were standard for Canada/USA.

The Daimler name was not used in North America after the SP250 sports
car was stopped in 1962, and no sedans were marketed here under the
Daimler name.

In the US, the series 3 VDP had the Daimler interior, no V12 sedans
being sold there (aside from 6 XJ12’s sold in 1979). After SIII XJ6
production stopped in 1987 the US VDP was an XJ40 car. I have no idea
how that compared trim wise to a UK market Daimler.

If you get a Heritage certificate for the final 100 Canadian cars it
says that they are Daimler Double Sixes and in brackets below it says
Jaguar Vanden Plas.

Craig
92 VDP

sovman wrote:>In the USA and Canada, the Daimler car is re-badged as a Vanden

Plas. This appears to lead to some confusion as to what the
term ‘Vanden Plas’ means in other markets.

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Does anyone have information on South African Daimler Double Six Vanden Plas
cars? I think our cars were assembled here. Mine is a 1983 year model, with
all the extras you mention, bucket seats, over rugs, leather centre console
etc. How many of these were produced in South Africa?

Regards

KC-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org]On Behalf Of
Phil_W
Sent: 17 February 2005 07:31
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] a word on Daimler/VDP

In reply to a message from sovman sent Thu 17 Feb 2005:

I am sure others will weigh in here, but according to
Thorley’s ‘‘Original Jaguar XJ6’’ pg.120, there were 401 Daimler
Double Six Vanden Plas models built between March 1979 and October
1982 for the UK, Australian, and Japanese markets with UK models
having vins of SADDDRLW3CC for RHD and SADDDRLW4CC for LHD, and
9628 Daimler Double Six models built between March 1979 and
November 1992 for the UK and Australian markets with UK models
having vins of SADDDALW3CC for RHD and SADDDALW4CC for LHD.
I own a Belgian delivered 1986 Daimler Double Six with vin
SADDDRLW4CC444123 and every Series III option I have ever seen
listed for the pre-1988 V12s including chrome side molding, rear
fogs, took kit, reading lights, VDP ‘bucket’ seats, overcarpets,
inset instruments, and headlight wipers. On the boot are ‘Daimler’
& ‘Double Six’ badges. So…is it a Vanden Plas? The R and W in
the vin agree with thorley’s list for UK DD6 VDPs, but the year of
manufacture does not.
Some have suggested that a car must have a VDP boot badge to be a
VDP model regardless of the vin; anyone know if the 79 to 82 DD6
VDPs had such a badge for all markets or if any were produced
without the Vanden Plas badge?

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KC,

Very few SIII cars were assembled in SA, and I think all V12’s were full
imports.

If your car was indeed assembled here (my '82 was not) it should have a
small plate sying so rivetted on the inner fender close to the ID plate of
the car.

I suppose a Heritage Certificate would tell you if the car was shipped off
as a CKD-kit.

Cheers!

Jack.> Does anyone have information on South African Daimler Double Six

Vanden Plas
cars? I think our cars were assembled here. Mine is a 1983 year
model, with
all the extras you mention, bucket seats, over rugs, leather
centre console
etc. How many of these were produced in South Africa?

Regards

KC

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In reply to a message from Phil_W sent Thu 17 Feb 2005:

Hello:

In reply to owner-xj@, I, too, have a 1986 Daimler Double Six of
(unknown) European origin SADDRLW4CC432634, federalized to US
specs. It has retained many of the options (front & rear fogs,
headlamp wipers, e-code lenses, chrome side moldings, reading
lamps, daimler emblem in drivers side floor carpet, Daimler and
Double Six emblems on the trunk lid), but some items have gone
missing, been changed/replaced, or installed over the years by
previous owners (Speedometer in MPH, toolkit, orginial headlamps,
and overcarpets). In some respects, I am unsure of what items are
correct.

The car has a tag on the right, inner fender well next to the VIN,
paint and trim code plate with 10 number/letter combinations such
as ‘10R-01156’, ‘11R-0028’, ‘12R-0028’ Is this a list of options,
and if so where could I find a list to decode the number.

What I am curious about is your reference to inset instruments and
VDP ‘bucket’ seats. My instruments appear to be like other xj6 and
xj12’s, so what does a inset guage look like? As to the VDP bucket
seats, are you refering to a different front seat or rear seat?

As I am interested in returning the lady to her original
specification, any help will be appreciated.–
The original message included these comments:

I am sure others will weigh in here, but according to


newfylab
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The Daimlers/VDP’s have gauges that are nearly flush with the wood
surface of the dashboard, whereas in an XJ6 the gauges sit on the
surface, rather than being inset. It’s a small difference, and not
really noticable until you see them side by side.

The seats are different front and rear, the rears are individual
buckets, rather than a bench. Here is a picture:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1104955996

This shows both the front and rear, although the front not very well.

This is the typical Jaguar style of seat, rather than the Daimler:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1064760486

Craig
92 VDP

newfylab wrote:>What I am curious about is your reference to inset instruments and

VDP ‘bucket’ seats. My instruments appear to be like other xj6 and
xj12’s, so what does a inset guage look like? As to the VDP bucket
seats, are you refering to a different front seat or rear seat?

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Craig:

Thank you for the clarification and links to pictures. I quickly examined
my dashboard and found my guages to be inset. I compared it to a spare xj6
dashboard with guages. The difference is subtle, and easily missed. Also,
my DD6 has a rear bench seat, not buckets. Wish it did as I like the look
of the rear buckets.

Do you know of any source to decode the option list tag I mentioned in my
original email.

Also, my VIN tag has the letters ‘AGE D333’ above the VIN number and ‘HZ’ in
the lower right hand corner. Any ideas on what that means.

Thanks again

Ed Antonio-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Talbot [mailto:talbotc@telus.net]
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:58 AM
To: newfylab
Cc: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] a word on Daimler/VDP

The Daimlers/VDP’s have gauges that are nearly flush with the wood
surface of the dashboard, whereas in an XJ6 the gauges sit on the
surface, rather than being inset. It’s a small difference, and not
really noticable until you see them side by side.

The seats are different front and rear, the rears are individual
buckets, rather than a bench. Here is a picture:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1104955996

This shows both the front and rear, although the front not very well.

This is the typical Jaguar style of seat, rather than the Daimler:
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1064760486

Craig
92 VDP

newfylab wrote:

What I am curious about is your reference to inset instruments and
VDP ‘bucket’ seats. My instruments appear to be like other xj6 and
xj12’s, so what does a inset guage look like? As to the VDP bucket
seats, are you refering to a different front seat or rear seat?

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AGE sounds like a colour code. Sorry, I don’t have a decode chart at
hand to tell you if that’s exterior paint or interior trim. The rest of
the letters don’t ring any bells for me, and I have not seen anything
like that on my cars.

Craig

Ed Antonio wrote:>Do you know of any source to decode the option list tag I mentioned in my

original email.

Also, my VIN tag has the letters ‘AGE D333’ above the VIN number and ‘HZ’ in
the lower right hand corner. Any ideas on what that means.

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In reply to a message from Craig Talbot sent Fri 18 Feb 2005:

The first set of seats in those pictures are what I would
call ‘vanden plas’ seats, while the second set are the sort of
seats found in most Daimler or Jaguar cars in Australia. Except for
the later Daimlers, which are exceptions to the general rule, no
Australian Daimler would have those bucket seats unless it carries
the additional external designation ‘Vanden Plas’, usually on the
opposite side of the bootlid to where it says Daimler (RHS). The
boring similarity of Daimler and Jaguar trim here has always been
rather disappointing to me, and Vanden Plas models and thus highly
desireable.

Steve–
sovman
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In reply to a message from Craig Talbot sent Fri 18 Feb 2005:

For some reason though, my Canadian (I am a BC’r) 1987 VDP has
every mentioned option with the one exception of the chrome side-
strip, instead there is a cheap plastic bit which I really detest;
the chrome one is gorgeous and I saw this for the first time in the
movie ‘Scratch’ on a sIII 4.2; looked great. Where there any other
features not offered to the Canadian Market for the VDP’s? my
understanding was that all the VDP’s or V-12 saloons where simply
the fully-loaded daimlers, re-badged.–
Regards, Keith Cox, 1987 Canadian VDP V-12
Salmon Arm, British Columbia, Canada
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The Canadian market V12 Vanden Plas was indeed just a Daimler Double Six
rebadged, as Craig has said, for the years up to and including 87, and
also for 1992. The 88 to 91 cars were upgraded V12 Sovereigns. In answer
to your question, the only Double Six items not standard on the V12
Vanden Plas were the foglamps; the chrome side spear was a Daimler item
and therefore not fitted to the Jaguar variant(the “cheap plastic” thing
on your car is not a Jaguar item). That said, the pre-87 cars did not
have the headlamp wipe/wash system, all V12 VDP cars 87 to 92 did.
Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of V-twizzle
Sent: February 18, 2005 10:15 PM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] a word on Daimler/VDP

In reply to a message from Craig Talbot sent Fri 18 Feb 2005:

For some reason though, my Canadian (I am a BC’r) 1987 VDP has
every mentioned option with the one exception of the chrome side-
strip, instead there is a cheap plastic bit which I really detest;
the chrome one is gorgeous and I saw this for the first time in the
movie ‘Scratch’ on a sIII 4.2; looked great. Where there any other
features not offered to the Canadian Market for the VDP’s? my
understanding was that all the VDP’s or V-12 saloons where simply
the fully-loaded daimlers, re-badged.

Regards, Keith Cox,

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Gregory,

That may hold true for the Jaguar V12’s, but the Daimler V12’s (both Double
Six and Vanden Plas) came equipped with them as standard from much earlier
athan '87. ( Never mind that they all stopped working after 6 months…but
they look cool!)

Cheers!

Jack>That said, the pre-87 cars did not

have the headlamp wipe/wash system, all V12 VDP cars 87 to 92 did.
Gregory

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Jack: yes, correct, but all my comments referred to the Canadian market
V12 Vanden Plas (which was what the questioner had).
Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: The Wirewheel Shop [mailto:wirewheels@iafrica.com]
Sent: February 21, 2005 9:14 AM
To: Dr. Gregory Andrachuk; Xj@Jag-Lovers. Org
Subject: RE: [xj] a word on Daimler/VDP

Gregory,

That may hold true for the Jaguar V12’s, but the Daimler V12’s (both
Double
Six and Vanden Plas) came equipped with them as standard from much
earlier
athan '87. ( Never mind that they all stopped working after 6
months…but
they look cool!)

Cheers!

Jack

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The Wirewheel Shop wrote:

Gregory,

That may hold true for the Jaguar V12’s, but the Daimler V12’s (both Double
Six and Vanden Plas) came equipped with them as standard from much earlier
athan '87. ( Never mind that they all stopped working after 6 months…but
they look cool!)

Mine has them too, Jack - in the same state of affairs…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)===================================================
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In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Mon 21 Feb 2005:

The Canadian v12 Vanden Plas is not the same as an Australian or
British Daimler Double-Six. It has bucket seats instead of normal
Daimler/Jaguar seats, and additional features not present on other
DD6 cars (especially the early ones).

In Australia, to get a Daimler Double Six which looks like the
Canadian equivalent, one would have to find a ‘Daimler Double Six
Vanden Plas’, which is a factory designation in its own right. The
Canadian cars appear to be only issued with the highest level of
trim specification (what we would call the extra VDP level). They
are, in effect, V12 Vanden Plas(Daimler) Vanden Plas.–
sovman
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In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Mon 21 Feb 2005:

that is for cars ‘up to… 87’, mine was an 82, and was an XJ6 to
all intents and purposes.

steve–
sovman
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In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Mon 21 Feb 2005:

DD6

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mcvalest/jag/ds1.jpg

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mcvalest/jag/l1.jpg--
sovman
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That is pretty much correct: the Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas was made for
Canada only in very small numbers (some years as few as 70, in the
final year, 1992, an even 100, all specially numbered, in special trim
and paint colours - numbers so small that Jaguar Cars does not have a
record of them; they calculate the number by estimating the number of
V12 cars sold to Jaguar Canada -all V12 cars here were VDP, but that
does not tell them how many were made for a model year). But as I have
explained before, there were two different seat styles for these cars,
what you have called the Daimler “bucket seat” style in full leather (I
will sent you a photo of this separately) in the years up to and
including 1987 and again for the final year, 1992, and a different
style, the Jaguar Sovereign-style with leather seating surfaces only
(again, see the photo) for the years 1988 to 1991 inclusive. Every other
part of the cars other than the seats themselves, was identical. (and
please tell us your real name!)
Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of sovman
Sent: February 22, 2005 3:27 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj] a word on Daimler/VDP

In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Mon 21 Feb 2005:

The Canadian v12 Vanden Plas is not the same as an Australian or
British Daimler Double-Six. It has bucket seats instead of normal
Daimler/Jaguar seats, and additional features not present on other
DD6 cars (especially the early ones).

In Australia, to get a Daimler Double Six which looks like the
Canadian equivalent, one would have to find a ‘Daimler Double Six
Vanden Plas’, which is a factory designation in its own right. The
Canadian cars appear to be only issued with the highest level of
trim specification (what we would call the extra VDP level). They
are, in effect, V12 Vanden Plas(Daimler) Vanden Plas.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

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// please trim quoted text to context only

Actually, Sovman, in reading this over, I see that you are NOT correct.
The Daimler Double Six through most of the 1980’s and right to 1992, had
precisely the same specification (that is, the same “bucket seat” style
interior) as what you claim to be a VDP exclusive.
Not so. I have any number of UK Daimler brochures which can
prove this, if proof is needed. When the Vanden Plas was dropped from
the UK range in the very early 80’s the VDP specification continued in
the Double Six, but it was not designated s a VDP. This corresponded to
the dropping of the “xj12” designation for the Jaguar, and the adoption
of the "Sovereign nomenclature, with corresponding trim upgrades.
I also have the Australian brochures, so there is no confusion
in what I have said.
Gregory-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf
Of sovman
Sent: February 22, 2005 3:27 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj] a word on Daimler/VDP

In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Mon 21 Feb 2005:

The Canadian v12 Vanden Plas is not the same as an Australian or
British Daimler Double-Six. It has bucket seats instead of normal
Daimler/Jaguar seats, and additional features not present on other
DD6 cars (especially the early ones).

In Australia, to get a Daimler Double Six which looks like the
Canadian equivalent, one would have to find a ‘Daimler Double Six
Vanden Plas’, which is a factory designation in its own right.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only