[xj] greasing rear hubs

XJ
1

Doing a routine grease up on my series 3 It said in the maintenance
manual to remove plugs in rear hubs and fill with grease till no
more can be put in ! Surely this would be an excessive amount of
grease considering size of hubs.Any comments? Dennis–
denchan 1990 daimler double six
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2

I think the theory is that for any of the grease to actually reach the
bearings, the hub must be full.

Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “denchan” dennischandler@btinternet.com

Doing a routine grease up on my series 3 It said in the maintenance
manual to remove plugs in rear hubs and fill with grease till no
more can be put in ! Surely this would be an excessive amount of
grease considering size of hubs.Any comments? Dennis

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3

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Sun 3 May 2009:

That sounds logical Doug Good answer as usual Dennis–
The original message included these comments:

I think the theory is that for any of the grease to actually reach the
bearings, the hub must be full.

–
denchan 1990 daimler double six
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4

Dennis:
Don’t bother; there is no way that grease installed this way can reach the
critical parts - and the proof of the redundancy of this operation is the
fact that this grease point has been entirely eliminated in the ABS-equipped
Series III cars - the ABS sensor uses this port instead.

Gregory,
Victoria, Canada
1966 Mark 2 3.8 (Pale Primrose)
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas (Black Cherry)
2002 X-Type 5 sp. manual (Anthracite)
2004 XJ8 4.2 (Ebony)-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
denchan
Sent: May-03-09 8:31 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xj] greasing rear hubs

Doing a routine grease up on my series 3 It said in the maintenance
manual to remove plugs in rear hubs and fill with grease till no
more can be put in ! Surely this would be an excessive amount of
grease considering size of hubs.Any comments? Dennis

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5

In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Sun 3 May 2009:

So Gregory they must have realized that it was a waste of time and
grease to lubricate the bearings that way Thanks for that
info.Dennis–
denchan 1990 daimler double six
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6

Or they expected that the sensors would simply be removed when greasing was
due !

It might be interesting to see if greasing the rear hubs was dropped from
the service schedule on those late cars. It was listed at the “30k miles”
interval on the others.

Some have installed zerk fittings in the little caps so that grease can be
injected into the hub under a bit of pressure, bettering the odds that some
of it will reach the bearings… and also bettering the odds that a seal
will be pushed out in the process :-).

The entire arrangement isn’t very satisfactory from a routine service
standpoint but the bearings, fortunately, are generously sized so they seem
to hold up as well as any other even with indifferent care and/or
ineffective greasing.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “denchan” dennischandler@btinternet.com

So Gregory they must have realized that it was a waste of time and
grease to lubricate the bearings that way Thanks for that
info.

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7

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Mon 4 May 2009:

That’s how I got my 84 xjs cheap. Apparently no one greased the
rear wheel bearing for a while, and the left one siezed up- reaming
out part of the aluminum hub. I bought it and had to tow it from
off the side of the road where it had sat for weeks in that
undrivable condition.
I fixed the left with a new hub and bearing assembly, and replaced
the right bearing as well just to be sure.
However you do it, get lube to those two bearings on each rear axel.–
needakidney
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8

No; the ABS-equipped cars are NOT to be greased through that port. And yes,
the greasing of the rear hub was eliminated; in fact the maintenance
instruction in the 1992 manual say “Lubricate all grease fittings excluding
hubs”.

Gregory,
Victoria, Canada
1966 Mark 2 3.8 (Pale Primrose)
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas (Black Cherry)
2002 X-Type 5 sp. manual (Anthracite)
2004 XJ8 4.2 (Ebony)-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
Doug Dwyer
Sent: May-04-09 5:52 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj] greasing rear hubs

Or they expected that the sensors would simply be removed when greasing was
due !

It might be interesting to see if greasing the rear hubs was dropped from
the service schedule on those late cars.

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9

In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Mon 4 May 2009:

Hm.
I almost find that hard to believe. A wheel bearing that never
needs to be lubricated? How does that work?–
needakidney
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10

Lubrication of the rear hubs through that access point on the hub carrier
was always a hope, at best. If the factory truly expected it to be used as a
grease point they would have fitted a grease nipple - and they didn’t.
Instead they fitted a domed cap. The percentage of Series III cars which
were actually greased after warranty expiration through that port - which
required the mechanic a) to recognise that this cap covered a grease port
and that it had to be removed, and b) to understand that grease had to be
forced in there so that it was packed full - the percentage is probably
about 2%. In other words, these cars never DID get the bearings greased this
way. So removal of this port - or rather dedication of this port to the ABS
sensor was logical - it didn’t effectively change anything regarding the
greasing.

Gregory,
Victoria, Canada
1966 Mark 2 3.8 (Pale Primrose)
1992 Series III V12 Vanden Plas (Black Cherry)
2002 X-Type 5 sp. manual (Anthracite)
2004 XJ8 4.2 (Ebony)-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj@jag-lovers.org] On Behalf Of
needakidney
Sent: May-04-09 10:24 AM
To: xj@jag-lovers.org
Subject: RE: [xj] greasing rear hubs

In reply to a message from Dr. Gregory Andrachuk sent Mon 4 May 2009:

Hm.
I almost find that hard to believe. A wheel bearing that never
needs to be lubricated? How does that work?

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11

There you have it ! :slight_smile:

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “Dr. Gregory Andrachuk” v12-vdp@shaw.ca

And yes,
the greasing of the rear hub was eliminated; in fact the maintenance
instruction in the 1992 manual say “Lubricate all grease fittings
excluding
hubs”.

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12

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Mon 4 May 2009:

Another item to scratch off of my ‘‘To Do’’ and my ‘‘Worry’’ lists! A
two-fer!!–
The original message included these comments:

There you have it ! :slight_smile:

And yes,
the greasing of the rear hub was eliminated; in fact the maintenance
instruction in the 1992 manual say ‘‘Lubricate all grease fittings
excluding
hubs’’.

–
Bruce Hugo '80 XJ6 SIII
St. Helens, OR, United States
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13

From the Vehicle Maintenance Sheet (JLM 10 51 02/021) for Series III VIN Range 300001 - 500000
at 7500 mile and 15000 mile intervals; Grease all points (excluding hubs)
at 60000 mile intervals; Remove clean and inspect front wheel bearings (replace bearing if required and the oil seals)

I had a bearing fail and so checked with my Jaguar dealership and they advised this VIN range was fitted “sealed for life” units because it was found greasing via the nipples didn’t improve the life of the bearing. For older models so long as the bearing was correctly packed on fitting it should last at least as long as the fronts probably twice as long, they did say make sure the dust cap is in place as water getting in there was usually the cause of failed bearings. Most engineers recommend that upon inspecting the fronts it would do no harm to inspect the rears. Any bearings replace by the dealership are automatically fitted with the “sealed for life” units and new dust caps, the grease nipples are left in place to keep the moisture out.>

Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 20:13:58 -0700
From: “Doug Dwyer” dougdwyer1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [xj] greasing rear hubs

There you have it ! :slight_smile:

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

From: “Dr. Gregory Andrachuk”
v12-vdp@shaw.ca

And yes,
the greasing of the rear hub was eliminated; in fact
the maintenance
instruction in the 1992 manual say “Lubricate all
grease fittings
excluding
hubs”.

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14

From the Vehicle Maintenance Sheet (JLM 10 51 02/021) for Series III VIN
Range 300001 - 500000

Which is the entire range of Ser III production, not a selected segment
of it

at 7500 mile and 15000 mile intervals; Grease all points (excluding hubs)
at 60000 mile intervals; Remove clean and inspect front wheel bearings
(replace bearing if required and the oil seals)

As opposed the earlier recommendation of 30k intervals for hub bearing
greasing

I had a bearing fail and so checked with my Jaguar dealership and they
advised this VIN range was fitted “sealed for life” units

Hmmm. I don’t expect mine to be taken as the final word on anything but I’ve
never seen a sealed bearing anywhere on a Ser III

because it was found greasing via the nipples didn’t improve the life of
the bearing.

Which is believable

For older models

Which models, I wonder, are they referring to ?

so long as the bearing was correctly packed on fitting it should last at
least as long as the fronts probably twice as long, they did say make sure
the dust cap is in >place as water getting in there was usually the cause
of failed bearings.

And make sure the hub seals are good…to keep grease in and everything else
out. I attribute the long life to the generous size of the rear bearings
more than anything else, but that’s just me.

Most engineers recommend that upon inspecting the fronts it would do no
harm to inspect the rears.

So long as “inspecting” the rears means a wiggle test for excessive free
play. Anything more requires a tear down as far as I can tell…not
something to be taken lightly on a rear hub !

Any bearings replace by the dealership are automatically fitted with the
“sealed for life” units and new dust caps, the grease nipples are left in
place to keep the >moisture out.

There are no nipples on the rear hubs, so they must be taking about the
fronts…and I love to hear more about the sealed bearings being
mentioned. Can you/they elaborate? I’d think a sealed bearing would require
a different hub arrangement entirely.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “BARRIE DAWSON” barrie.peter@btinternet.com

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15

In reply to a message from BARRIE DAWSON sent Tue 5 May 2009:

Hmmm, velly interasting. I believe at some point there was
a change to larger rear bearings. Were these bearings also
the ‘‘sealed for life’’ variety or were there three designs in
total–small, large, and large sealed?–
The original message included these comments:

I had a bearing fail and so checked with my Jaguar dealership and they advised this VIN range was fitted ‘‘sealed for life’’ units because it was found greasing via the nipples didn’t improve the life of the bearing. For older models so long as the bearing was correctly packed on fitting it should last at least as long as the fronts probably twice as long, they did say make sure the dust cap is in place as water getting in there was usually the cause of failed bearings. Most engineers recommend that upon inspecting the fronts it would do no harm to inspect the rears. Any bearings replace by the dealership are automatically fitted with the ‘‘sealed for life’’ units and new dust caps, the grease nipples are left in place to keep the moisture out.

–
Bob Wilkinson, 72 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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16

BARRIE DAWSON wrote:

I had a bearing fail and so checked with my Jaguar dealership and they advised this VIN range was fitted “sealed for life” units because it was found greasing via the nipples didn’t improve the life of the bearing.

Remember that ‘sealed for life’ means that ‘sealed up and left to die’,
Barrie…:slight_smile:

IAW; there is nothing you can do in situ to prolong its life - when it
eventually fails that’s ‘life’. It doesn’t of course mean that it will
last forever, nor is the wording actually meant to so state - though it
is slightly biased. If dismantling and regreasing can do the trick -
like on a front hub, I don’t know…

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)===================================================
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17

Early models are up to VIN 322373

Sealed For Life bearings is the term used to refer to the seals being intact stopping the grease getting out and the water getting in. These can easily be checked during routine servicing, a damaged seal will be indicated by grease streaks on the hub carrier the bearing also excessive bearing end-float.

It is possible to inject grease into the rear hub by removing the grease cap but don’t pressurise the grease because once it starts to seep out of the seals you will have to replace them. So long as the seals are still good the original grease will still be in there so won’t need refilling.

Barrie Dawson
1985 Sovereign 4.2 UK Spec===================================================
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18

Early models are up to VIN 322373

That would be c1981 model year

Sealed For Life bearings is the term used to refer to the seals being
intact stopping the grease getting out and the water getting in.

I think we’re operating from different definitions, Barrie. To me, a sealed
bearing is one that cannot be disassembled for cleaning and repacking, with
seals actually incorporated into the bearing assembly.

I’ve scanned all my Ser III parts catalogs and can find nothing that
indicates a change in bearing or seal design. Maybe I’ve missed something.

These can easily be checked during routine servicing, a damaged seal will
be indicated by grease streaks on the hub carrier the bearing

Heh heh heh. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one without some streaks !

also excessive bearing end-float.

Right ! But its not as though is easy to actually remove the bearings for a
true visual inspection.

It is possible to inject grease into the rear hub by removing the grease
cap but don’t pressurise the grease because once it starts to seep out of
the seals you will >have to replace them. So long as the seals are still
good the original grease will still be in there so won’t need refilling.

After 15-20-25 years you wouldn’t be concerned about the quantity and
condition of the grease in there? I would, especially in light of the
less-than-perfect seals. I’m betting that most are not in very shape as far
as grease goes and only the over sized bearings prevents us from seeing more
failures than we already do.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “BARRIE DAWSON” barrie.peter@btinternet.com

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19

In reply to a message from denchan sent Sun 3 May 2009:

I have greased the rears on both my cars by removing the plugs
and pushing the grease in as much as I could, eventually enough
grease will get to the bearings to keep them in good shape.
The proof is that one of my cars has 120K on it, and the other
75K.
They really don’t need much grease as many people might think.

                                          Walter--

The original message included these comments:

Doing a routine grease up on my series 3 It said in the maintenance
manual to remove plugs in rear hubs and fill with grease till no
more can be put in ! Surely this would be an excessive amount of
grease considering size of hubs.Any comments? Dennis

–
Walter Schuster 78XJ6 FI Ser.II, 69E Ser.II 2+2original
Albuquerque/New Mexico, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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20

In reply to a message from Frank Andersen sent Tue 5 May 2009:

Fascinating conversation here, guys! I guess since there’s just
over 30k miles on my '82 I should be looking into repacking mine.

I’ll pitch in what (little) I know about bearings. Each bearing is
manufactured with a predetermined L10 life. The L10 life is
typically based upon the number of operating hours at a given RPM
based on a 90% statistical model which is expressed as the total
number of revolutions 90% of the bearings in an apparently
identical group of bearings subjected to identical operating
conditions will attain or exceed before a defined area of material
fatigue occurs on one of its rings or rolling elements. Or, the L10
life can be associated with 90% reliability for a single bearing
under a certain load.

Since with vehicles the RPM varies, it is difficult to predict the
L10 life of a bearing. But I can tell you that a properly
maintained bearing will outlast a sealed for life bearing! As
Frank stated, sealed for life is just that-it will last only so
long, with no maintenance and then it must be replaced.
Conversely, a regreaseable bearing has the capability of lasting
much longer, when properly maintained due to fresh grease being
reintroduced at regular intervals. And yes, the larger the bearing,
the longer it will last…the greater diameter of the ‘‘roller pins’’
will cause them to rotate at a lower RPM prolonging their life
expectancy beyond a smaller ‘‘pin’’.

I’ve never been a fan of greasing a bearing via a nipple. To me a
bearing should be removed and the grease should be forced in either
by hand, or with a grease packing unit. The nipple is fine for
pumping in a shot every so often as a supplement, but it will not
force the grease into the raceway where it is really needed.
Just my 2 cents.–
The original message included these comments:

Remember that ‘sealed for life’ means that ‘sealed up and left to die’,
IAW; there is nothing you can do in situ to prolong its life - when it
eventually fails that’s ‘life’. It doesn’t of course mean that it will
last forever, nor is the wording actually meant to so state - though it
is slightly biased. If dismantling and regreasing can do the trick -
like on a front hub, I don’t know…

–
1982 XJ6
Allendorf, Iowa, United States
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