[xj] Newbie with his 1st question - S3 4.2

Hi all

I’m new to the site and this is my first posting. I’m just
looking for a little re-assurance or guidance this time. I
did post this question on another Jag forum, to which I got
the reply to come here instead as it was a better site!!!

I’ve agreed in principle to buy a Series 3 4.2. Everything
has been done online at the moment as the car is quite a
distance. I’ve seen lots of photo’s and asked lots of
questions and we’ve agreed a price. The next step is for me
to actually go and check it, pay for it, and get it home.

I’m good with cars having restored a couple in the past, and
currently restoring a 2.8i Capri. It would take a fairly
good bodge to escape my attention, but I’m not buying a
minter or I’d be paying minter money. What worries me is
continual comments from a retired guy I know who used to
have one from 86. He says the rear suspension mounting has a
very large bolt that goes into the body and all Series 3’s
rot badly there, and there’s no easy way to tell as you
can’t even see it properly if you crawl underneath.
Something about a box structure within a box structure?

I don’t want to buy something that looks fine, only for it
to have a serious unknown structural problem.

Anyone know about this?–
phorbiuz
St Helens, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from phorbiuz sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

Phorbiuz

Welcome to the forum!

There are plenty of places that Series XJs rot, and if you look at
my photo albums, or this web page
http://www.almclwebpages.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Daimler2.html
or this one: http://almcl.org/sitemap.aspx
you’ll see a few.

To see many more have a look at Richard’s (teddykan) photo albums:
http://tinyurl.com/6ec6j7

I think he’s got just about every possibility covered and has had a
go at repairing nearly all of them.

Which brings us to the next point. If you weld and paint then
there’s nothing that can’t be fixed, including the rear radius arm
mounting points which your friend has sought to terrify you with.
They don’t ALL rot, but some certainly do, and looking from
underneath may not reveal the full extent of the problem
(particularly if a previous owner has been creative with
undershield) but there will be signs.

If you have to pay someone to do the welding it can get expensive
quite quickly.

If it’s a complete basket case (sump full of mayonnaise, perforated
body panels, brakes in an unworkable state and mould growing on the
interior) I’d say walk away. There are plenty of better ones, even
now and they simply don’t sell. If it’s driveable, has a current
MoT, good oil pressure and OK paint then sorting out a few niggles
and the odd blemish will give you a very rewarding luxury car to
drive.–
The original message included these comments:

minter or I’d be paying minter money. What worries me is
continual comments from a retired guy I know who used to
have one from 86. He says the rear suspension mounting has a
very large bolt that goes into the body and all Series 3’s


al mclean '93 XJS 4.0 - '84 4.2 Daimler - '84 DD6
Telford, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

I suspect your retired pal is referring the the radius arm mounts.

The left and right radius arms run forward from the rear suspension and
attach to the underbody and, yes, in some cases the mountings rot out. And,
yes, it is an enclosed section so the innards cannot be inspected.

Obviously rotted mountings will be easy to spot, of course…sometimes they
rot right through and the arms fall off. Those where rot is less severe will
be hard or impossible to detect. I’m afraid there’s a risk here that you’ll
just have to take. If the rest of the car is rust free it would increase my
confidence about the radius arm mountings.

I remember removing the bolts on my XJS and watching about a pint of water
came out of each hole !

Others will chime in.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJRFrom: “phorbiuz” phorbiuz@yahoo.co.uk

. What worries me is
continual comments from a retired guy I know who used to
have one from 86. He says the rear suspension mounting has a
very large bolt that goes into the body and all Series 3’s
rot badly there, and there’s no easy way to tell as you
can’t even see it properly if you crawl underneath.
Something about a box structure within a box structure?

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

Phorbiuz. I am not sure if anybody has already answered you on this yet but
here goes with my pennies worth.

Yes there are two box section supports at the rear suspension that can be
weakened by rust. However if a car has that much rust in it to damage those
parts, the rust would be showing up in many other places that are far more
visible and obvious.

Front fenders for one. Run your hand down the outside of front fenders where
they meet the lower sill. If they are out of line, sitting proud of the
lower sill, serious rust has already formed behind them between the fender
itself and the securing bracket welded to it. This formation of rust is now
forcing the fenders out of alignment.

Again with the front fender feel around the headlights between the eyebrow
of the fender and the chrome trim ring of the lights. If you feel rust, it
is a good sign the car has serious rust problems in other places too. You
should also look for rust in the front lower part of the rear wheel arch,
the part between the wheel and the rear doors and again, around the upper
part of the wheel arch.

I would also lift the both the front floor mats and pay particular attention
to the seam going down the centre of the car. If you can see the ground
through any part of the floorboards keep your wallet in your pocket and just
leave. Lastly the lower panels at the rear underside of the car especially
where the exhaust pipes poke through. Either badly rusted or fully rotted
out and I would be out of there.

I always take a careful look at the condition of the rear radius arms. I
find they tell me more about the condition of the body more than any other
part. If the owner has been a little on the devious side by doing a good job
of disguising all the other faults in the car, they always forget to do
something about sprucing up these arms. Bad rust in radius arms is a
complete deal breaker for me no matter what the rest of the car looks like.
Unless of course I am buying a parts car then I really don’t care. I
remember seeing one car that was absolutely gorgeous looking until I played
around with the radius arms. I found I could flex them up and down by hand.
I never looked back as I walked away.

Worth noting that damage by way of signs of rust around the lower part of
the front and rear windshields does not tell much about the condition of
rest of the car. This is a common problem with even a good car due to rain
or just washing the car. It is cause by a fault with the design of the
channel that holds the windshields. It tends to hold and retain the water
which will eventually causes the owner a problem.

Bob.>From: “phorbiuz” phorbiuz@yahoo.co.uk

What worries me is
continual comments from a retired guy I know who used to
have one from 86. He says the rear suspension mounting has a
very large bolt that goes into the body and all Series 3’s
rot badly there, and there’s no easy way to tell as you
can’t even see it properly if you crawl underneath.
Something about a box structure within a box structure?

I don’t want to buy something that looks fine, only for it
to have a serious unknown structural problem.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

And, they only rust there if they’re not lubed when assembled or
reassembled!–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Doug Dwyer wrote:

I suspect your retired pal is referring the the radius arm mounts.

The left and right radius arms run forward from the rear suspension and
attach to the underbody and, yes, in some cases the mountings rot out.
And, yes, it is an enclosed section so the innards cannot be inspected.

Obviously rotted mountings will be easy to spot, of course…sometimes
they rot right through and the arms fall off. Those where rot is less
severe will be hard or impossible to detect. I’m afraid there’s a risk
here that you’ll just have to take. If the rest of the car is rust free
it would increase my confidence about the radius arm mountings.

I remember removing the bolts on my XJS and watching about a pint of
water came out of each hole !

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Bob. peddlar sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

I wanted to add my own 2 cents worth on the subject of the
front and rear window channels. All that is needed to stop
them leaking is a small bead of flowable silicone sealant
where the glass meets the rubber seal, and a second bead
where the seal meets the body. My XJ6 had wet carpets until
I did this. Worth doing even if no rust is showing yet. Of
course if you have serious rust starting the best approach
is to take the front and rear screens out and fix it properly.–
1990 XJ-S V12 Convertible, 1986 XJ6
Santa Clara, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from phorbiuz sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

Well I need to throw my 2 cents in.
I traded a car I really didn’t care much about for my VDP some two
years ago. I had wanted an XJ ever since I first drove one 30 years
ago. My car sat resting for a long long time. It too has some rust
issues but nothing that can’t be fixed. I will fix it because I
love the car. If you love the car and the issues are something you
can fix, bring it home !!!
All series IIIs rust there is a bold statment. Mine didn’t.–
The original message included these comments:

I’m new to the site and this is my first posting. I’m just
looking for a little re-assurance or guidance this time. I
did post this question on another Jag forum, to which I got
the reply to come here instead as it was a better site!!!
continual comments from a retired guy I know who used to
have one from 86. He says the rear suspension mounting has a
very large bolt that goes into the body and all Series 3’s
rot badly there, and there’s no easy way to tell as you


Tim '83 VDP '60 MGA '69 MGB '86 XJ6 (Parts)
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from phorbiuz sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

Thanks all.

Looks like if its not obvious then you just have to take the
risk. I’ve gotten loads of further information just
browsing the posts on this forum too, so registering here
certainly seems to be the way forward.–
phorbiuz
St Helens, United Kingdom
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Tim. sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

A better statement would be that they all rust around the
windshield!

Even my always California car, without a spec of rust on it
elsewhere, has some rust around the windshield. Shame really.

I looked under the wheelarches, and saw perfect, shiny green
paint. Yes, all the underseal has dried out and flaked off,
leaving the immaculate green paint exposed. Wish the paint
on the roof and hood was that good…–
The original message included these comments:

All series IIIs rust there is a bold statment. Mine didn’t.


1990 XJ-S V12 Convertible, 1986 XJ6
Santa Clara, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from almcl sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

There are plenty of good ones available as Al says - just
take your time and make sure you get a really good one - yes
there is an adrenaline rush when you start to fall in love
with Jags - but it can be a very expensive affair if you get
it wrong.–
The original message included these comments:

They don’t ALL rot, but some certainly do, and looking from
underneath may not reveal the full extent of the problem
interior) I’d say walk away. There are plenty of better ones, even
now and they simply don’t sell. If it’s driveable, has a current
MoT, good oil pressure and OK paint then sorting out a few niggles


Rolph XJ6 C Manual/SU’s/: Alicante(Spain) Tampere(Finland)
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

Mark I believe that would be only temporary stop gap fix. I think the
silicone will eventually fail and start letting water get in there. The only
sure-fire way of fixing it permanently that I know of is to remove the
windshield completely and have the channel filled with the sealant that
holds the windshield in place. Then there is no longer a place for the water
to be retained.

Bob.>From: “Mark H” mark944s2@yahoo.co.uk

All that is needed to stop
them leaking is a small bead of flowable silicone sealant
where the glass meets the rubber seal, and a second bead
where the seal meets the body.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from phorbiuz sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

Welcome from me as well.
Seek out a Jag Club and / or someone with some knowledge of
the XJ’s and take them along.

Keep in mind as well you are looking at a car getting on to
50 years old now and , unless you are expecting to find a
‘‘minter’’ at a ‘‘bucket of bits’’ price , then some rust /
repair work and cost will be needed.

Good luck , Pete.–
V6MGB
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

phorbiuz wrote:

He says the rear suspension mounting has a
very large bolt that goes into the body and all Series 3’s
rot badly there, and there’s no easy way to tell as you
can’t even see it properly if you crawl underneath.
Something about a box structure within a box structure?

Hello phorbiuz,

There IS an easy way to test that particular area. The bolts in
question are right next to the rear jacking points, when you go to view
the car firstly have a good look and poke around the area between the
jacking point and the rear wheel well then ask the vendor to jack the
car up on each of the 4 jacking points using the Jaguar jack, yes, all
four could be affected.

If he refuses you can assume that he knows there is a problem.

If he agrees and the jack goes through the sill you know there is a problem.

If he agrees and all is accomplished without incident then all is
tickety-boo, in that particular area at least.

My '84 Jaguar cost �625 6 months ago and it is as solid as can be
underneath whereas my '86 Daimler cost twice that 14 months ago and
turned out to be as rotten as a pear. In fact that particular Daimler
was the only one of 4 S111s and 1 S11 Coupe that had any rot underneath,
excluding front or rear valences.

If not already a member, you should join The Jaguar Enthusiast’s Club:

Good hunting.

TTFN

Bill
Surrey,UK
1986 Daimler 4.2
1984 Jaguar Sovereign 4.2 5 speed manual===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Bill Davies sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

I agree totally with Bill.

My first purchase was an 87 that I just had to have.
When I first got it home an issue I had to address was non working
fuel switches, so I had to remove the rear tires. When I jacked the
car up, the sill crushed. Even to a rookie it was a good sign that
something wasn’t right.

David
www.EverydayXJ.com–
The original message included these comments:

There IS an easy way to test that particular area. The bolts in
question are right next to the rear jacking points, when you go to view
the car firstly have a good look and poke around the area between the
jacking point and the rear wheel well then ask the vendor to jack the
car up on each of the 4 jacking points using the Jaguar jack, yes, all
four could be affected.
Bill


84 XJ6 (Driver) 86 XJ6 (Project) Parts cars piling up.
Rockwell, NC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from DavidBoger sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

I am a very lucky man. The only possible rust is a small bubble on
the lower rear part of the driver side wing. It was there when I
got it. It hans’t changed a bit. I know I should remove the splash
panel and clean out the goop that must be there.

Al and Richard have succesfuly built Jaguars using pikes of rust as
a mold to shape new metal. Amazing.

Carl–
The original message included these comments:

My first purchase was an 87 that I just had to have.
When I first got it home an issue I had to address was non working
fuel switches, so I had to remove the rear tires. When I jacked the
car up, the sill crushed. Even to a rookie it was a good sign that
something wasn’t right.


Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

Ditto!–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Mark H wrote:

In reply to a message from Tim. sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

A better statement would be that they all rust around the
windshield!

Even my always California car, without a spec of rust on it
elsewhere, has some rust around the windshield. Shame really.

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from Alex Cannara sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

In the very quiet of night, you can hear the Jags rusting…–
Alyn
Seattle WA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

If they have car covers, it’s muffled.–
Alex
79xj6L SII (BRG + wires)
86xj6 SIII (Black)
61 Sprite MkII (Red)
Menlo Park, Calif.

Alyn wrote:

In reply to a message from Alex Cannara sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

In the very quiet of night, you can hear the Jags rusting…

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from phorbiuz sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

Hi phorbiuz,
If you’re familiar with car restoration then the Jaguar XJ
shouldn’t be a problem. In fact, I’m new to restoration myself and
am cutting my teeth on the XJ. This has given me confidence go
branch out to the XJ-S (not extensive) and others, but I’m getting
to know the XJ chassis quite well now.

The suspension mountings can be rebuilt, and there’s plenty of
advice here. I’ve resorted to quite a bit of support from the forum
for my chllanges. Good luck, I thnk you’ll enjoy it.

Regards,
teddykan
Kent or Glos, UK–
teddykan
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only

In reply to a message from teddykan sent Thu 29 Jan 2009:

The XJ is a good car to learn on as it is inexpensive yet
worth the effort at the end. I remember the jacking points
giving way on my early XJS and after taking it of the road,
repair all sorts of places and re welding a 8X4 sheet of
steel into it getting a kick out of starting it back up and
using it again.

Learn how to weld thin sheet this car will teach you a lot
about monocoque body structures. These are really nice cars
when done and although others may disagree I think the XJ
was the best sedan car of its era and I still use one every day.

As an aside I had a new 2.8 Capri when they first came out
and it was a fun car to drive. I guess the last ones with
the locking diff were even better.

Good luck and welcome to the fraternity.

Alex P–
alex paterson
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

===================================================
The archives and FAQ will answer many queries on the XJ series…
FAQs: http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/index.html
Archives: http://www.jag-lovers.org/lists/search.html

To remove yourself from this list, go to http://www.jag-lovers.org/cgi-bin/majordomo.

// please trim quoted text to context only