[xj] Permatex threadlocker

List:

I picked up a tube of Permatex, high heat (450 degrees F.), red
threadlocker, which I intend to use on the brass bushing going into
the newly cut threads in the the oil sump drain.

The instructions recommend cleaning both surfaces with Permatex brake
and parts cleaner. I have all the mineral solvents, xylene, acetone,
paint thinner as well as carburetor cleaner. Any suggestions what to
use? I don’t want to mess this up.

Regards
Lou
71 XJ6===================================================
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All that is necessary is that the surface be free of oil. However, I
always use red threadlocker with caution. Basically, only use it in a
place that you’ll never want to take it apart ever again. If you do need
to take it apart, you’ll have to heat the parts with an acetylene torch
to get them hot enough to break the bond, so use in places where that is
possible.

When I worked at an OEM oilfield equipment fabricator we never used the
red, only blue. Actually, we only used the Loctite brand and used the
243, which is a medium strength threadlocker, but with greater oil
resistance so the threads do not have to be perfectly clean. Loctite
also makes it in semisolid sticks, which are very handy to use.

Craig

Lou Danzico wrote:> List:

I picked up a tube of Permatex, high heat (450 degrees F.), red
threadlocker, which I intend to use on the brass bushing going into
the newly cut threads in the the oil sump drain.

The instructions recommend cleaning both surfaces with Permatex brake
and parts cleaner. I have all the mineral solvents, xylene, acetone,
paint thinner as well as carburetor cleaner. Any suggestions what to
use? I don’t want to mess this up.

===================================================
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In reply to a message from Lou Danzico sent Sat 20 Mar 2010:

Plumber’s Tape (Teflon) also works Lou; The more tape used, and the
tighter it is over the male threads, it acts as a thread lock and
more importantly, a stop-leak.

Gasoline also works fine to clean the threads.

this trick was shown to me by an XK engine rebuilder. Curiously,
the auto parts stores are now selling it as ‘‘Mechanic’s Tape’’, for
a lot more money than you pay at a hardware store like Ace. I use
it in all drain bolts, (oil pan, tanks, transmission drain bolt,
differential filler/drain bolt), anywhere there is fluid.

Not to mention in every water line connection in the house.

For gasoline line connections, use Permatex HYLOMAR Blue Racing
Formula.

Zurdo–
The original message included these comments:

I picked up a tube of Permatex, high heat (450 degrees F.), red
threadlocker, which I intend to use on the brass bushing going into
the newly cut threads in the the oil sump drain.
The instructions recommend cleaning both surfaces with Permatex brake
and parts cleaner. I have all the mineral solvents, xylene, acetone,
paint thinner as well as carburetor cleaner. Any suggestions what to
use? I don’t want to mess this up.
Regards
Lou


1965 3.8 ‘S’ 1984 XJ-6
Florida, United States
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In reply to a message from zurdo sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

I’m not sure I can agree with that totally, but assuming it
(petrol) all evaporates, then I suppose it could work. BrakeKleen
is better suited and safer to work with. If you are serious about a
good seal with Loctite, then go round each thread using your
fingernail, inside a paper towel soaked in brakekleen - until the
towel comes off clean.

I’m still waiting for the leaking transmission pan gasket cure.
I’ll have to give Teflon tape a try on the bolt threads. But IMO
the problem is more complex than that. Upon further reflection, I
just don’t want to think about what damage could be done to the
tranny with bits of Teflon tape floating around in there. (That
stuff leaves behind a nasty trail of slivers, bits, and pieces upon
disassembly)–
The original message included these comments:

Gasoline also works fine to clean the threads.


Ted Macklin/'85 XJ6SIII
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In reply to a message from TMack sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

but the same thing could be said for any other applied chemical on
any bolt’s thread ?

I’ve been cleaning parts with gasoline forever, never use brake
cleaner; Yes, gasoline evaporates instantly.–
The original message included these comments:

I’ll have to give Teflon tape a try on the bolt threads. But IMO
the problem is more complex than that. Upon further reflection, I
just don’t want to think about what damage could be done to the
tranny with bits of Teflon tape floating around in there. (That
stuff leaves behind a nasty trail of slivers, bits, and pieces upon
disassembly)
Ted Macklin/'85 XJ6SIII


1965 3.8 ‘S’ 1984 XJ-6
Florida, United States
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In reply to a message from Lou Danzico sent Sat 20 Mar 2010:

Lou, Go ahead and clean with lacquer thinner. What you need is a
cleaner that will evaporate and take oil traces with it…then use
your thread locker…–
1977 XJ6C , 1988 XJ-S H&E
skaneateles, ny, United States
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Tape is designed for tapered threads like on iron gas pipe. All it does
is reduce the friction ( because its teflon) and allow you to drive the
male piece further into the female pipe and distort the threads enough
to make a seal. It’s a one time thing, if a pipe joint is taken apart
the threads cannon be reused ( at least if you do things properly)
Because the of the danger of bits of teflon getting to the system I’d
never us it in an engine. I’ve seen plenty of clogged oil filters that
were full of bits of tape.

Loctite thread locker acts as both a thread locker and a sealant, teflon
tape actually reduces the holding power of the threads. As part of my
jon in the oil patch, we brought in Loctite and they did a 1 day mini
university on their products for locking and sealing, it was very
interesting and informative. The anaerobic products ( like the locker
and sealer) are impervious to gasoline when cured.

Craig

zurdo wrote:>In reply to a message from Lou Danzico sent Sat 20 Mar 2010:

Plumber’s Tape (Teflon) also works Lou; The more tape used, and the
tighter it is over the male threads, it acts as a thread lock and
more importantly, a stop-leak.

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Try Loctite 515, that’s what it is designed for.
http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/93791_515EN.pdf

Craig

TMack wrote:>

I’m still waiting for the leaking transmission pan gasket cure.

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In reply to a message from Craig Talbot sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

Interesting, Craig. I hadn’t heard about the ‘‘one time use’’
feature of threaded pipe, but of course I never do things
properly. :slight_smile:

The teflon is supposed to serve as a sealant, though–not
just a lubricant. Tapered threads provide a labyrinthine
leakage path spiraling along the threads–sealant is
required except on special threads designed to self-seal.

A tip I picked up from pipe fitters is to apply tape, then
teflon paste. This seals much better than either alone.
Also lubricates better, so be careful not to overtighten.–
The original message included these comments:

Tape is designed for tapered threads like on iron gas pipe. All it does
is reduce the friction ( because its teflon) and allow you to drive the
male piece further into the female pipe and distort the threads enough
to make a seal. It’s a one time thing, if a pipe joint is taken apart
the threads cannon be reused ( at least if you do things properly)


Bob Wilkinson, 72 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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I was building stuff that carried natural gas at fairly high pressures,
(sometimes it was sour gas containing highly toxic H2S) so any leaks are
not acceptable, even a few PPM. The problem with reuse is the threads
get distorted and when tightened up a second time to be leak free, and
it is quite possible to either strip the threads or crack the fitting.
The pressure carrying capability of the joint is severely compromised by
the partially yielded threads.

Agreed, a sealant is better than tape, which is why we used loctite, as
it both seals and locks. It completey fills the voids in teh threads so
there is no chance of leaks. Because of that complete filling of the
inter thread space, it also prevents the threads from rusting, important
when a joint is outside. Even when painted, joints exposed to the
weather will corrode together if not protected.

Craig

Robert Wilkinson wrote:>

Interesting, Craig. I hadn’t heard about the ‘‘one time use’’
feature of threaded pipe, but of course I never do things
properly. :slight_smile:

The teflon is supposed to serve as a sealant, though–not
just a lubricant. Tapered threads provide a labyrinthine
leakage path spiraling along the threads–sealant is
required except on special threads designed to self-seal.

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In reply to a message from zurdo sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

We should set the record straight.

You want to get the threads clean. Gasoline, being petroleum
derived, will always leave an oily residue. Further, many of the
hydrocarbons present, like benzine, are carcinogenic. The fumes as
well, are unhealthy and extremely flammable. It isn’t really ever
considered by legitimate mechanics as a cleaner.

Mineral spirits, naptha or even solvents advertised to ‘‘remove
grease’’, like 3M Prepsol, can leave a residue. Alcohol will remove
oil completely. Brake cleaner is alcohol based.

Plumber’s tape will dislodge and clog oil galleys and ports. It’s
not suitable for high heat environments. Never use it on an engine.–
The original message included these comments:

Plumber’s Tape (Teflon) also works Lou; The more tape used, and the
tighter it is over the male threads, it acts as a thread lock and
more importantly, a stop-leak.
Gasoline also works fine to clean the threads.
this trick was shown to me by an XK engine rebuilder. Curiously,
the auto parts stores are now selling it as ‘‘Mechanic’s Tape’’, for
a lot more money than you pay at a hardware store like Ace. I use


John Testrake 74XJ12L rhd, 84 XJ6 700R4
St.Louis, United States
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In reply to a message from John Testrake sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

QFT! (Quoted for Truth!)–
The original message included these comments:

We should set the record straight.
You want to get the threads clean. Gasoline, being petroleum
derived, will always leave an oily residue. Further, many of the
hydrocarbons present, like benzine, are carcinogenic. The fumes as
well, are unhealthy and extremely flammable. It isn’t really ever
considered by legitimate mechanics as a cleaner.
Mineral spirits, naptha or even solvents advertised to ‘‘remove
grease’’, like 3M Prepsol, can leave a residue. Alcohol will remove
oil completely. Brake cleaner is alcohol based.
Plumber’s tape will dislodge and clog oil galleys and ports. It’s
not suitable for high heat environments. Never use it on an engine.


Ted Macklin/'85 XJ6SIII
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In reply to a message from TMack sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

If you’re going to use Teflon tape, make sure you get the
tape in the yellow plastic container that is rated for use
with petroleum products. You can get it at a plumbing
supply place or a home center. Plumbers use it on oil and
gas lines.

Also, wrap it carefully and do not wrap it on the first
thread so none can get cut off and end up circulating in
your engine.–
'71 E-Type 2+2, '84 XJ6, '03 X-Type
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This is why I love this list. Even if I don’t have a problem with the
car, just reading it yields such a wealth of knowledge.

loctite 243 and brake cleaner are next on my ‘things to buy’ list.–
William G. Higgins
1973 Series 1 XJ6 4.2l
Vancouver, BC

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In reply to a message from Wild Bill sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

I’m not advocating to get teflon tape inside the engine, just
enough on the threads to stop leakage, and like Bill explained, not
all the way to the first threads.–
The original message included these comments:

If you’re going to use Teflon tape, make sure you get the
tape in the yellow plastic container that is rated for use
with petroleum products. You can get it at a plumbing
supply place or a home center. Plumbers use it on oil and
gas lines.
Also, wrap it carefully and do not wrap it on the first
thread so none can get cut off and end up circulating in
your engine.


1965 3.8 ‘S’ 1984 XJ-6
Florida, United States
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TMack wrote:

In reply to a message from zurdo sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

I’m not sure I can agree with that totally, but assuming it
(petrol) all evaporates, then I suppose it could work. BrakeKleen
is better suited and safer to work with. If you are serious about a
good seal with Loctite, then go round each thread using your
fingernail, inside a paper towel soaked in brakekleen - until the
towel comes off clean.

I’m still waiting for the leaking transmission pan gasket cure.
I’ll have to give Teflon tape a try on the bolt threads. But IMO
the problem is more complex than that. Upon further reflection, I
just don’t want to think about what damage could be done to the
tranny with bits of Teflon tape floating around in there. (That
stuff leaves behind a nasty trail of slivers, bits, and pieces upon
disassembly)

Not forgetting the xk is on old construction, Ted

It was made in an age when sealing was done with gaskets and specific
washers - there was no technique, outside plumbing, for preventing leaks
by using thread sealing. And the principle use of ‘Locktite’ etc
compounds is not sealing, but a substitute for lockwiring and locking
tabs…

Like you I’m chary of ‘unautorized’ sealant getting into the fluids.
Jaguar may not have been entirely succesful in leakproofing - but most
now stems from age detorioration of the original stuff used, or
incorrect remedial procedures. And admittedly; the could have paid more
attention to glandular seals. They may not have fully realized that
someone would have to replace the the rear crankshaft seal outside
general overhaul but could have made a better solution. But the other
sealing works perfectly when used as intended…:slight_smile:

Frank
xj6 85 Sov Europe (UK/NZ)>The original message included these comments:

Gasoline also works fine to clean the threads.

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In reply to a message from John Testrake sent Sun 21 Mar 2010:

Recently got myself a gallon can of paint brush cleaner from
the hardware store. Seems to be a mix of organic solvents,
and would be ideally suited for de-greasing parts I think.–
1990 XJ-S V12 Convertible, 86 XJ6, 01 XJ8
Santa Clara, CA, United States
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