[xj] Rear wheel bearing end-float, correct procedure

XJ
1

I’m confused about the right procedure to measure and correct end-
float when re-assembling the rear hub and carrier. The manuals
(collectively) have two procedures. One is with the assembly off
the car and on the bench. The other is with the unit on the car.

I understand checking the end-float after the unit is installed.
Any adjustment is made by obtaining the proper thickness bronze
spacer that is installed behind the hub carrier.

But why is there an end-float check with the assembly off the car
and on the bench? Why not just wait until it’s all on the car and
check it there?

The reason I am asking is I have taken the hub/carrier assembly to
a machine shop to install the bearings. There is some disagreement
whether or not they should fully seat the bearings or leave .002’’-
.006’’ of clearance.

Seems to me they should fully seat the bearings and I will adjust
for proper end-float by using the correct bronze spacer thickness
at assembly time.

I hope there is someone out there who really understands this
procedure and will provide some advise.

Thanks…Jayhawk1–
Jayhawk1
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2

In reply to a message from Jayhawk1 sent Wed 16 Feb 2005:

Logic would say fully seat the bearing, you need another machine
shop, the one you are using does not know what they are doing, and
you know it.
Install the bearing seats, assemble every thing then, using a dial
indicator, check the float. This car be done on or off the car,
makes no difference. You want an end float of .001 to .003
This you will check AFTER you torque the axle nut to 100 lbs. Now
when you do that, if the cotter pin hole does not line up, turn
nut to the next slot where it will line up. DO NOT back off nut to
line up cotter pin hole.–
Dr. Chadbourn Bolles
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3

In reply to a message from Dr. Chadbourn Bolles sent Thu 17 Feb 2005:

Thanks Dr. It is as I expected. The machine shop is actually well
recommended but they are a general services shop, not specifically
auto and rarely see Jag parts. We live in a great but very small
community. With a little coaching, they’ll do fine.

Additional question: The Series III Service Manual states 45-65
lbs. of torque for the wheel nuts. Understanding it is a
controversial number at best, how did you arrive at 100 lbs.?

Again, thank you for your guidance…Jayhawk1–
The original message included these comments:

Install the bearing seats, assemble every thing then, using a dial
indicator, check the float. This car be done on or off the car,
makes no difference. You want an end float of .001 to .003
This you will check AFTER you torque the axle nut to 100 lbs. Now
when you do that, if the cotter pin hole does not line up, turn
nut to the next slot where it will line up. DO NOT back off nut to
line up cotter pin hole.

–
Jayhawk1
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4

In reply to a message from Jayhawk1 sent Thu 17 Feb 2005:

Jayhawk…
He is saying axle nuts (and cotter keys) and you’re saying wheel
nuts; I think that’s the difference.
Bill–
The original message included these comments:

In reply to a message from Dr. Chadbourn Bolles sent Thu 17 Feb 2005:
Additional question: The Series III Service Manual states 45-65
lbs. of torque for the wheel nuts. Understanding it is a
controversial number at best, how did you arrive at 100 lbs.?

This you will check AFTER you torque the axle nut to 100 lbs. Now
when you do that, if the cotter pin hole does not line up, turn
nut to the next slot where it will line up. DO NOT back off nut to
line up cotter pin hole.
Jayhawk1

–
Bill de Creeft AlaskaSeaplanes.com
Homer, Alaska, United States
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5

In reply to a message from Wm de Creeft sent Thu 17 Feb 2005:

Of course. Thanks for the correction. 100# it is.

btw: I’m quite excited about this project. I have always wanted a
Series III XJ6 and even though this is sort of a ‘‘Phoenix’’ project,
I’m totally enchanted.–
Jayhawk1
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6

In reply to a message from Jayhawk1 sent Wed 16 Feb 2005:

You are adjusting two different ‘end floats’ here you have
to set up the hub bearings first then install the hub the
bronze spacer sets up the float between the hub assembly &
the drive shaft.–
The original message included these comments:

float when re-assembling the rear hub and carrier. The manuals
(collectively) have two procedures. One is with the assembly off
the car and on the bench. The other is with the unit on the car.
I understand checking the end-float after the unit is installed.
Any adjustment is made by obtaining the proper thickness bronze
spacer that is installed behind the hub carrier.

–
Keith Turner '79 XJ6 based Aristocat, , '81 3.4 XJ6
Swansea, United Kingdom
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7

In reply to a message from Keith Turner sent Fri 18 Feb 2005:

Keith, please elaborate. There is only one increment spacer in my
parts manual. It’s the bronze one that comes in .002’’ increments.
And it is shown in the exploded diagram in only one location,
inboard of the hub shaft, which is the next to last last part
assembled before mounting the assembly back onto the axle. There
is no apparent adjustment, ring or otherwise for the hub bearings.

If there is an end-float concern for the hub bearings, how do you
adjust for out-of-spec measurements? I guess I’m being a real
idiot about this but it shouldn’t be this hard.

Again, please elaborate. This has to be right or I will never have
confidence in the car or my ability to maintain her.

Thanks…Jayhawk–
Jayhawk1
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8

In reply to a message from Jayhawk1 sent Sat 19 Feb 2005:

Hi Jayhawk. you are at the right place, the ring you called bronze
is actually steel but its coated with copper, they come in 2 thou
increments, that is the adjustment. if you put in a ring 2 thou
thickker, when you tighten it up to 100 foot pound it will push the
hub out of the hub carrier 2 thou, therefore loosening the space
beetwin the inner and outer brings. that is how it is adjusted. And
when you put in a ring 2 thou thinner, when you tighten it it will
bring the 2 brgs closer there fore lessening the end play. sso you
want to keep putting spacers in until you feel a tiny bit of wiggle
the book says you need an indicator clock, but thats hard to come
by. So the best way to feel it is when you tightened it up put the
wheel on, and grabbing it at 3 and 9 oclock wiggle the wheel, if
you detect a tiny amount of play then you pull the shaft out, and
replace it with the next size thinner. You tighten it up again, and
feel for the wiggle if you dont feel it anymore you are right on.
Its just that when you feel the tiny bit of play you have to
investigate where the play is it could be in the trunion brgs too.
so you want to make sure you read it right. I know its a bummer,
you have to have different cpacers and the size is not printed on
them, so you need a o to 1 inch mike and when you mike one put a
tape on it with the size. other than that its no biggie regards
Pajtas–
The original message included these comments:

Keith, please elaborate. There is only one increment spacer in my
parts manual. It’s the bronze one that comes in .002’’ increments.
And it is shown in the exploded diagram in only one location,
inboard of the hub shaft, which is the next to last last part
assembled before mounting the assembly back onto the axle. There
is no apparent adjustment, ring or otherwise for the hub bearings.
If there is an end-float concern for the hub bearings, how do you
adjust for out-of-spec measurements? I guess I’m being a real
idiot about this but it shouldn’t be this hard.

–
jaguarjoe 54 XK 120 rdstr 1961 MKIX 94 XJ6
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9

Further to Pajtas’s explanation it’s worth pointing out that if you have
started with the correct or thinner-than-correct spacer, tightened up the
hub nut and found little or no play, you will need to loosen the hub from
the inner bearing after removing from the drive shaft so that the action of
re-tightening with a thicker spacer pulls the hub into the inner bearing by
the amount determined by the new spacer. If you do not loosen the hub, then
no matter how much thicker a spacer you fit, the hub will remain ‘too far
in’. It hardly needs saying that you should not hit the hub shaft to loosen
it…

Chris


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10

In reply to a message from Chris Knowles sent Tue 22 Feb 2005:

Hi Chris its not nessasery to to do that when you put in the
thikker spacer, it will push the hub out of the hub carrier. there
can be no other way, Regards Pajtas–
The original message included these comments:

Further to Pajtas’s explanation it’s worth pointing out that if you have
started with the correct or thinner-than-correct spacer, tightened up the
hub nut and found little or no play, you will need to loosen the hub from
the inner bearing after removing from the drive shaft so that the action of
re-tightening with a thicker spacer pulls the hub into the inner bearing by
the amount determined by the new spacer. If you do not loosen the hub, then
no matter how much thicker a spacer you fit, the hub will remain ‘too far
in’. It hardly needs saying that you should not hit the hub shaft to loosen
it…
Chris

–
jaguarjoe 54 XK 120 rdstr 1961 MKIX 94 XJ6
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11

In reply to a message from pajtas sent Tue 22 Feb 2005:

Yes you are right My memory is playing tricks on me The
official manual shows the use of a special stepped collar
when assembling the hub this allows you to gauge the spacer
with the hub on the bench & no shaft fitted. My memory made
me think that the hub set up was separate to the shaft
spacer & not just a different way of doing the setting.DOH!–
The original message included these comments:

Keith, please elaborate. There is only one increment spacer in my
parts manual. It’s the bronze one that comes in .002’’ increments.
And it is shown in the exploded diagram in only one location,

–
Keith Turner '79 XJ6 based Aristocat, , '81 3.4 XJ6
Swansea, United Kingdom
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12

In reply to a message from Keith Turner sent Thu 24 Feb 2005:

Ok, thanks to all that helped. Here’s what’s happened so far. I
put the hub assembly back on the car after recieving it back from
the machine shop, where they renewed the bearings. I renewed the
lower pivot shaft bearings and seals. It was great fun and a
confidence builder.

I used the same spacer that came out of it because I had no other
sizes and did not know what size to order. Getting the lower pivot
together was not the easiest job. I had a dummy shaft machined to
6’’ and that helped alot. After that I lifted the hub assembly
toward the axle shaft and tried for 2 hours to get it to slide on.
It finally cooperated.

I then put the axle nut on and tightened it as far as I could. Then
I put the tire on and a wedge under the tire, as I had bothe rear
wheels off the ground. I torqued it a ways then rotated the tire,
torqued again, totatedthe tire, and so on until I reached 100 lbs.
I had to go a bit past 100 lbs to get the pin to drop into the
hole.

Now to my next question. There is no discernible end play. I tried
to use a dial indicator but I think I just moved the car as I
pulled thr hub out. The wheel tutns but it’s stiff due to the fact
that it is rotating the third member components as well. I’m
worried that it may be too tight. How can I be sure it is OK?

Thanks again for all the help so far…Jayhawk1–
Jayhawk1
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13

Well there’s the problem that people have been discussing lately on this
list and it�s why I always do it on the bench. There is no real way to check
with it on the car. The hub has to be forced in and out to check the slop
and the water ring slinger is in the way.

I do it on the bench by holding the hub housing in the vice. I mount a
magnetic dial gauge to the back of the vice and by wedging a crow bar in the
vice I use it to force the hub to slide without damaging the water slinger.
I have never been able to fathom a way to do this on the car.

BTW the torque setting for that nut is between 100 and 120 ft lbs so you
should be all right with yours. Jaguar also recommends that you put a
litttle locktite on the splines when assembling the drive shaft into the hub
but it makes it a bitch to ever get back out again.

Bob.>From: “Jayhawk1” alanorear@mchsi.com

Ok, thanks to all that helped. Here’s what’s happened so far. I
put the hub assembly back on the car after recieving it back from
the machine shop, where they renewed the bearings. I renewed the
lower pivot shaft bearings and seals. It was great fun and a
confidence builder.

I used the same spacer that came out of it because I had no other
sizes and did not know what size to order. Getting the lower pivot
together was not the easiest job. I had a dummy shaft machined to
6’’ and that helped alot. After that I lifted the hub assembly
toward the axle shaft and tried for 2 hours to get it to slide on.
It finally cooperated.

I then put the axle nut on and tightened it as far as I could. Then
I put the tire on and a wedge under the tire, as I had bothe rear
wheels off the ground. I torqued it a ways then rotated the tire,
torqued again, totatedthe tire, and so on until I reached 100 lbs.
I had to go a bit past 100 lbs to get the pin to drop into the
hole.

Now to my next question. There is no discernible end play. I tried
to use a dial indicator but I think I just moved the car as I
pulled thr hub out. The wheel tutns but it’s stiff due to the fact
that it is rotating the third member components as well. I’m
worried that it may be too tight. How can I be sure it is OK?

Thanks again for all the help so far…Jayhawk1

Jayhawk1
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14

In reply to a message from Jayhawk1 sent Wed 9 Mar 2005:

My local Jag specialist loaned me his collection of shims &
I was able to measure & try a few until I got the correct
endfloat I found it easy to do on the car if a bit laborious
having to remove the nut & drop the hub off the end of the
drive shaft to remove the shim you mus have an over thick
shim to get some endfloat to start with otherwise you have
no chance (as you have found)
I gave him my original shim & he did not charge me nice
bloke!–
The original message included these comments:

Now to my next question. There is no discernible end play. I tried
to use a dial indicator but I think I just moved the car as I
pulled thr hub out. The wheel tutns but it’s stiff due to the fact
that it is rotating the third member components as well. I’m
worried that it may be too tight. How can I be sure it is OK?

–
Keith Turner '79 XJ6 based Aristocat, , '81 3.4 XJ6
Swansea, United Kingdom
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15

In reply to a message from Keith Turner sent Thu 10 Mar 2005:

Keith, I will order the thickest shim available and redo the job.
This should assure me of some end-play, then I should be able to
calculate the right size. Thanks for the advice.

By the way, where is Swansea?–
The original message included these comments:

My local Jag specialist loaned me his collection of shims &
I was able to measure & try a few until I got the correct
endfloat I found it easy to do on the car if a bit laborious
having to remove the nut & drop the hub off the end of the
drive shaft to remove the shim you mus have an over thick
shim to get some endfloat to start with otherwise you have
no chance (as you have found)

–
Jayhawk1
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16

Ok, either this thread took a turn that I missed or some of us are not on
the same page at all.

Are you guys talking about the spacers used when installing bearings into
the hub , or the spacer used when installing the hub onto the
axle/driveshaft ??? It must be the former, because the latter would require
a thinner spacer to give more end float.

From the manual: “End float is controlled by a spacer next to the universal
joint on the hub shaft. End float is normally .001” to .003" and must be
rectified if it exceeds .005" by changing the spacer for a thicker one." It
stand to reason, then, that if reducing end float is accomplished with a
thicker spacer, then increasing end float is accomplished with a thinner
one.

Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1987 Ser III XJ6
1988 XJS V12From: “Jayhawk1” alanorear@mchsi.com

Keith, I will order the thickest shim available and redo the job.
This should assure me of some end-play, then I should be able to
calculate the right size. Thanks for the advice.

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17

In reply to a message from Jayhawk1 sent Sun 13 Mar 2005:

Swansea is in South Wales UK
Don’t forget to check the other sources of endfloat - diff
bearings, UJ’s are OK & fulcrum bearings etc.–
The original message included these comments:

By the way, where is Swansea?

–
Keith Turner '79 XJ6 based Aristocat, , '81 3.4 XJ6
Swansea, United Kingdom
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