[xj-s] changing cam cover gaskets

I took the xjs down to an independent Jag shop in Pompano the other
day just to feel them out…looking for an alternative to the
dealers. I had a small leak at the back of the right hand cover.
The guy said that he lifts the whole top off the engine to do the
job, not one manifold at a time. To me this seems like it could put
the fuels rails and other parts at risk for damage and then be
rather difficult tp put everything back down with out twisting the
rails or other stuff connected to the manifolds. He said he does it
this way all the time…saves time and money.
Has anyone ever had this job done in this manner before on their
V12’s?
I took a small socket and snugged up the rear cover bolts a bit and
seemed to stop the leak but this is a temporary fix.I know that the
gaskets should be changed out and would be a good time to put new
half moon seals on also.–
Bruce Erickson, 1994 XJS Conv. 6L V12
Port Saint Lucie/Florida, United States
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Never tried it that way but, with two sets of hands, it sounds plausible to
me.

Others will chime in.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

To me this seems like it could put
the fuels rails and other parts at risk for damage and then be
rather difficult tp put everything back down with out twisting the
rails or other stuff connected to the manifolds. He said he does it
this way all the time…saves time and money.

// please trim quoted text to context onlyFrom: “Skyman” skyman83d@aol.com

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Mon 12 Nov 2012:

Bruce, Doug:
The intakes and the fuel rail come out as one piece, then
replacing everything in the ‘vee’ is easy.
I did it myself in the garage last winter, took my time to
replace the banjo bolts and all other gaskets I had an access
to. New spark plugs too.
Some pictures in my albums.
Given the amount of work to take the manifolds out, I would
not replace just one of the cam cover gaskets.
Best regards,
Steve–
The original message included these comments:

To me this seems like it could put
the fuels rails and other parts at risk for damage and then be
rather difficult tp put everything back down with out twisting the
rails or other stuff connected to the manifolds. He said he does it


'95 XJS V12 6.0L, saphire/tan
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In reply to a message from sbobev sent Mon 12 Nov 2012:

Steve,

How did you get the valley so clean with the intakes off? I
have everything off and trying to decide how to clean it
without getting water in the engine.

Thanks
Ryan–
The original message included these comments:

The intakes and the fuel rail come out as one piece, then
replacing everything in the ‘vee’ is easy.
I did it myself in the garage last winter, took my time to
replace the banjo bolts and all other gaskets I had an access
to. New spark plugs too.
Some pictures in my albums.


1987 Jaguar XJS V12
Escondido, CA, United States
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// please trim quoted text to context only

Or, the fuel rail can be removed first and then the intakes removed
individually, which is probably how it is most commonly done as injector
hoses are often replaced at the same time anyway.

Yes, if cam cover gaskets are being replaced it makes sense to “do
everything in the vee” all in one shot.

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

Bruce, Doug:
The intakes and the fuel rail come out as one piece, then
replacing everything in the ‘vee’ is easy.

// please trim quoted text to context onlyFrom: “sbobev” shelxtl@yahoo.com

In reply to a message from Doug Dwyer sent Mon 12 Nov 2012:

Doug:
This is 6.0L V12. It uses no injector hoses and since I was
not planning on ‘‘messing’’ with the injectors at that time, I
just pulled everything together.
This is not one-person job though, the whole thing is very
heavy.
Steve–
The original message included these comments:

Or, the fuel rail can be removed first and then the intakes removed
individually, which is probably how it is most commonly done as injector
hoses are often replaced at the same time anyway.
Yes, if cam cover gaskets are being replaced it makes sense to ‘‘do
everything in the vee’’ all in one shot.
Doug Dwyer


'95 XJS V12 6.0L, saphire/tan
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In reply to a message from The Zar sent Mon 12 Nov 2012:

Ryan:
I did not use any water. Lots of rugs initially to wipe off
all that gunk and after that finished it with a toothbrush and
some hydrocarbons (gas, brake cleaner, etc).
Many hours in the garage, but I do not think water and old
electrical connectors are compatible.
Best regards,
Steve–
The original message included these comments:

How did you get the valley so clean with the intakes off? I
have everything off and trying to decide how to clean it
without getting water in the engine.


'95 XJS V12 6.0L, saphire/tan
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In reply to a message from sbobev sent Mon 12 Nov 2012:

Steve,

I was hoping you weren’t going to say that. I am doing it
the same way. What a pain! It will be worth it in the end.

Thanks,
Ryan–
The original message included these comments:

I did not use any water. Lots of rugs initially to wipe off
all that gunk and after that finished it with a toothbrush and
some hydrocarbons (gas, brake cleaner, etc).
electrical connectors are compatible.


1987 Jaguar XJS V12
Escondido, CA, United States
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Ahhhhhhh…

Guess I wasn’t paying close enough attention,

Carry on :slight_smile:

Cheers
Doug Dwyer
Longview Washington USA
1995 XJR

Doug:
This is 6.0L V12. It uses no injector hoses and since I was
not planning on ‘‘messing’’ with the injectors at that time, I
just pulled everything together.

// please trim quoted text to context onlyFrom: “sbobev” shelxtl@yahoo.com

I had a small leak at the back of the right hand cover. The guy said
that he lifts the whole top off the engine to do the job, not one
manifold at a time. To me this seems like it could put the fuels rails
and other parts at risk for damage and then be rather difficult tp put
everything back down with out twisting the rails or other stuff
connected to the manifolds. He said he does it this way all the
time…saves time and money. Has anyone ever had this job done in
this manner before on their V12’s?

That’s the way we all do it. It’s much easier on the mechanic, the
hardware involved, and the customer’s wallet.

I took a small socket and snugged
up the rear cover bolts a bit and seemed to stop the leak but this is
a temporary fix.I know that the gaskets should be changed out and
would be a good time to put new half moon seals on also.

I recommend you do NOT reassemble the cam covers in OEM
configuration. The cam cover gasket/half moon seal arrangement is a
leak waiting to happen, even if installed correctly, because the
gasket is not properly compressed over the half moon seal. Rather,
there are two alternatives for a vastly more reliable and longer-
lasting seal:

  1. Omit the cam cover gasket altogether. Use the OEM rubber half
    moon seal. Apply Loctite 518 all over the mating surfaces and all
    around the half moon seals. This will seal reliably until the half
    moon seal dries out and rots away, at least 10 years, probably 20.
    It also saves a bundle on those cam cover gaskets, since they are
    expensive.

  2. In place of the rubber half moon seals, use solid aluminum plugs
    offered by Ron Kelnhofer. Apply Loctite 518 around the aluminum
    plug. Use the gortex cam cover gaskets, which will be properly
    compressed against the surface of the aluminum plug. This will seal
    reliably until the sun burns out. It does cost more to obtain the
    aluminum plugs and the gortex gaskets.

  3. Fill the half moon holes with epoxy and then assemble with the
    gortex gaskets. This is difficult to do in the car due to the angle;
    it’s easy with the tappet block on the bench because you can just put
    covers on both sides and fill it up and let it dry.

Under no circumstances should you use paper cam cover gaskets.

You should also plan to replace the cam cover bolts while in there.
You’ll need to find out whether yours are SAE or metric. Once you
find out, buy a box of alloy socket head screws that are one size
longer than the OEM screws, perhaps 1/4" or 5mm longer. Install with
one split ring lockwasher and one flat washer under each head, making
sure that the flat washer is small enough OD to sit flat on the
surface of the cam cover.

Finally, as you know Shipwright’s Disease will set in. You should
also replace the flat washers under the 3/8" head nuts along the
outboard edge of the head with thicker washers, something 1/8" thick.
You can do that one nut at a time without disturbing the head gasket
integrity.

You’ll also want to reinstall the intake manifold gaskets with the
newer 2-piece models, but make sure to cut the 2-piece gaskets into
10 pieces before installation! The only pair to leave connected is
the 3-4 on each bank.

All that is at a minimum. There are other tasks you could undertake
while in there, including checking the valve clearances, replacing
the valve stem seals with Teflon seals, resealing under the tappet
block, etc., etc.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 12 Nov 2012 at 5:27, Skyman wrote:

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Mon 12 Nov 2012:

Thanks for this tread, as I just picked up a TWR clone that
needs this work.

What’s the reason for cutting the gaskets? Better fit over
each intake?

Thanks,

Rob–
The original message included these comments:

You’ll also want to reinstall the intake manifold gaskets with the
newer 2-piece models, but make sure to cut the 2-piece gaskets into
10 pieces before installation! The only pair to leave connected is
the 3-4 on each bank.


Robert Laughton www.leatheriquecanada.com 1999 Super 8
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In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Mon 12 Nov 2012:

Thanks
The gortex gaskets and Ron’s aluminum half moons are what I was
planning…your #2 option.(I have installed his aluminum tensioner
plug and it’s nice and dry…no leaks) Now, It’s just a matter of
who to trust with the job.
Hopfully I’ll find a qualified place who will let me look in on the
job a bit. My old mechanic up north would actually let me work
right with him so I could see just what was ngoing on with my
baby.The independent Jag mechanic down in Pompano claims to be a
Jag only expert but his rules are drop the car off,leave and don’t
come back til he calls you. I’m hoping the Jag dealer up the road
from me might be a bit more flexible.–
The original message included these comments:

  1. In place of the rubber half moon seals, use solid aluminum plugs
    offered by Ron Kelnhofer. Apply Loctite 518 around the aluminum
    plug. Use the gortex cam cover gaskets, which will be properly
    compressed against the surface of the aluminum plug. This will seal
    reliably until the sun burns out. It does cost more to obtain the
    aluminum plugs and the gortex gaskets.


Bruce Erickson, 1994 XJS Conv. 6L V12
Port Saint Lucie/Florida, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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// please trim quoted text to context only

What’s the reason for cutting the gaskets? Better fit over
each intake?

On the pre-H.E., if you don’t cut the gaskets you’ll never be able to
change the spark plugs again. On the H.E., it’s basically just to
keep the V attractive and clean; those ugly sections of pink gasket
just ugly it up something awful!

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 13 Nov 2012 at 4:02, Robert Laughton wrote:

In reply to a message from Skyman sent Tue 13 Nov 2012:

Bruce:
Your 6.0L came from the factory with the updated metal-
sandwich plate gaskets. They cost dearly (ca. $50 each) but
as Kirby has said – they are the way to go.
When I did the job last year, I also put the modified banjo
bolts on the oil feed pipes and the aluminum half-moon plugs
from Ron.
Doubt it very much a dealer will let you do it your way.
Plus, at their labor rate, this job probably will be
outrageously expensive.
Best regards,
Steve–
The original message included these comments:

The gortex gaskets and Ron’s aluminum half moons are what I was
planning…your #2 option.(I have installed his aluminum tensioner
plug and it’s nice and dry…no leaks) Now, It’s just a matter of
who to trust with the job.


'95 XJS V12 6.0L, saphire/tan
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In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Tue 13 Nov 2012:

Kirby:
I am not sure if there is a design change with the 6.0L V12,
but the intake manifold gasket that I got from the dealer was
greenish and fit very well without any cutting.
Is it the gasket or the engine? Someone who has worked on both
5.3 HE and 6.0 would know better
Steve–
The original message included these comments:

What’s the reason for cutting the gaskets? Better fit over
each intake?
On the pre-H.E., if you don’t cut the gaskets you’ll never be able to
change the spark plugs again. On the H.E., it’s basically just to
keep the V attractive and clean; those ugly sections of pink gasket
just ugly it up something awful!


'95 XJS V12 6.0L, saphire/tan
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php

// please trim quoted text to context only

I am not sure if there is a design change with the 6.0L V12,
but the intake manifold gasket that I got from the dealer was
greenish and fit very well without any cutting.

Ooooh, interesting. Was it 2-piece, one per bank? Part number?

The latest part number I know of is NNA-3020BA. But those are pink;
at least the ones I got were pink.

I suppose someone who has heads laying around can tell us if the
intake ports changed enough between the 5.3 and the 6.0 to warrant a
gasket change. I understand the manifolds themselves changed, but I
didn’t expect that to warrant a gasket change.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 13 Nov 2012 at 15:58, sbobev wrote:

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Tue 13 Nov 2012:

Kirby, yes, two piece set, one for each bank. It fits almost
perfectly and no cutting was required. What I took off the
engine was brownish (probably was pink when new) and it was
NOT a single piece.
Part number is indeed NNA3020AA according to my invoice.
Terry’s website has the picture:
http://www.terrysjag.com/product/NNA3020BA.html

My albums have a photograph of the 6.0L intakes (3rd
photograph in the folder ‘‘Upper engine work - 1995 XJS V12
6.0L’’ ), but since I have not seen the 5.3L ones, I cannot
tell whether there is a difference or not. Perhaps you or
someone else with lots of experience can comment on that.

Best regards,
Steve–
The original message included these comments:

I am not sure if there is a design change with the 6.0L V12,
but the intake manifold gasket that I got from the dealer was
greenish and fit very well without any cutting.
Ooooh, interesting. Was it 2-piece, one per bank? Part number?
The latest part number I know of is NNA-3020BA. But those are pink;
at least the ones I got were pink.
I suppose someone who has heads laying around can tell us if the
intake ports changed enough between the 5.3 and the 6.0 to warrant a
gasket change. I understand the manifolds themselves changed, but I
didn’t expect that to warrant a gasket change.


'95 XJS V12 6.0L, saphire/tan
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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In reply to a message from sbobev sent Tue 13 Nov 2012:

Steve
I just got back from the Jag dealer 2 miles up the road from me.
I had a nice long talk with one of their mechanics who seemed to be
very knowledgable on the xjs and the V12 engines.Then had a talk
with one of their service people.
They were both very interested in everything I had to say and some
of the things I have learnd from JagLovers.org.
Turns out both these guys share our passion for the older Jaguars.
They liked the idea of using Rons half moons, improved banjo bolts.
They wanted me to be satisfied with the gaskets,etc that will go on
the car along with cleaning up the V area when everything is off
along with checking the plugs,wires,rotor and anything else that
could be easily done while the manifolds are off.
I think I’ll be able to work with them. Going back to give them the
VIN # and all my service records so we can formulate a plan and put
togeher an estimate.–
The original message included these comments:

Your 6.0L came from the factory with the updated metal-
sandwich plate gaskets. They cost dearly (ca. $50 each) but
as Kirby has said – they are the way to go.
When I did the job last year, I also put the modified banjo
bolts on the oil feed pipes and the aluminum half-moon plugs
from Ron.
Doubt it very much a dealer will let you do it your way.
Plus, at their labor rate, this job probably will be
outrageously expensive.


Bruce Erickson, 1994 XJS Conv. 6L V12
Port Saint Lucie/Florida, United States
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// please trim quoted text to context only

What I took off the
engine was brownish (probably was pink when new) and it was
NOT a single piece.

Really? On a 6.0? I woulda thought the 2-piece gaskets came out
before the 6.0. That makes me wonder if the 2-piece gaskets are
rebuild-only, the factory continued to use 12-piece gaskets.

Part number is indeed NNA3020AA according to my invoice.
Terry’s website has the picture:
http://www.terrysjag.com/product/NNA3020BA.html

Green! That means either of two things: 1) The color doesn’t
matter, it’s the spec of the gasket material that’s critical; or 2)
Somebody is selling non-spec gaskets using the OEM part number.
That’s actually fairly common with Jaguars, with things like
aftermarket Marelli distributor caps being sold by Jaguar dealers
using the part number for a Marelli cap.

Personally, I have never felt that the intake manifold gaskets were a
problem area. Most people who find leaks discover that the mounting
nuts were loose. Anybody who has them off installs new gaskets with
some decent sealer and never has another problem. I used a 12-piece
set during a rebuild back before the 2-piece design came out, and I
never had a problem with it.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 14 Nov 2012 at 5:52, sbobev wrote: