[xj-s] Evaporator being replaced today

XJ-S
1

Hello everyone!

Last time I posted about a/c I hoped it would be the last
time for several years, but it was not to be.

My cars a/c has been done to death (I know y’all have
heard this litany from me before) with 3 compressors, a
new parallel flow condenser, aftermarket pusher fans in
front of the condenser to keep it cool , 4 or more driers
and expansion valves, new valve stems, new mechanical fan
clutch and new foam around the radiator and the condenser
to help with air flow…but always back to square one.
System would be great after having work done and then
start getting worse. 3 independent Jaguar places looked at
her. They all tried dye and sniffers. In the end, it seems
like the car is loosing a very very small amount of r 134
over time. Never to where it’s been empty, but enough for
me to feel a difference in the Texas heat.

My Jaguar mechanic tried everything he could to eliminate
the evaporator…he watched those drains for dye, tried
to place the sniffer thru ongodly places on the car, but
no go. The evaporator is all that’s left. Added to that
the fact that I have been hearing noises (like Darth Vader
talking) from behind the dash, it is all that is left to
do.

My evaporator was ‘‘supposedly’’ replaced 3 or 4 years ago.
Because of issues with that particular shop and because I
never saw my dash in a million parts, I am pretty sure it
was never done.

So the evaporator is being replaced today, new drier and
exp valve as well of course. The crumbling foam that comes
out from the vents into my eyes will be replaced as well,
and the clips that hold the defroster vents in place so my
window won’t condense at night.

This better take care of it for good.

The part is aluminum because that is all we could find for
the 95:96 cars, but I have been told they are made of a
higher quality now to prevent future leaks. I have also
been told to replace the drier every often (2 years) to
make sure moisture does not eat out the evaporator from
inside out.

BTW if anyone knows how much oil needs to be added to the
system after both the evaporator and the drier are
replaced, please post it. My mechanic is pretty good, but
I want to make sure I stay on top of things.–
95 AJ16 http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1325653847 Houston
Houston, TX, United States
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2

Hi Mark,

It may be too late to change course, but I would suggest the following
BEFORE pulling EVERYthing apart to change the evaporator:

(1) If the sniffer has confirmed refrigerant is coming from the facia
vents with the A/C on, retest with the bonnet shut and tape or such
preventing any refrigerant from a leak at the expansion valve o-ring on
the engine side of the firewall from entering the air intake plenum in
front of the windshield. Also use the sniffer at the firewall area and
the intake plenum. It is very easy to assume a positive sniffer test
of facia discharge air means a leaking evaporator, but a leak on the
engine side of the firewall WILL get refrigerant in the intake and of
course OUT of the discharge vents.

(2) Conversely, if there is NO positive sniffer in the facia discharge
air, then the evaporator is OK.

(3) If UV dye has been used in the system, you can remove the pliable
duct from one side of the A/C box and look in to see if there is dye in
the condensate drain area. You can see the side & rear of the
evaporator this way. You will have to remove that anyway if
examination confirms a leak.

(4) Lastly, remove the fittings from the evaporator on the firewall
side and pressure test the evaporator BEFORE tearing everything apart.
Do this last, as if it flunks the pressure test, you KNOW the
evaporator is bad, and you have NOT created extra work as those
fittings will need to be removed anyway.

Good Luck,

George Balthrop, Clifton, VA USA
89 and 85 XJ-S Coupes; 89 XJ40 VDP-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Janzic m_nikola_janzic_paulet@yahoo.com

My Jaguar mechanic tried everything he could to eliminate
the evaporator…he watched those drains for dye, tried
to place the sniffer thru ongodly places on the car, but
no go. The evaporator is all that’s left. Added to that
the fact that I have been hearing noises (like Darth Vader
talking) from behind the dash, it is all that is left to
do.

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3

Hi Mark,

I should add that the sound you are hearing is an indicator of low
refrigerant charge (caused by the expansion valve doing things it does
NOT do when the system is properly charged '-) and simply indicates
you have a leak somewhere in the system. It does NOT in any way
suggest the evaporator is the cause of the leak. The expansion valve
of course is attached to the evaporator and meters refrigerant entering
the evaporator, so this is why you hear it inside the cabin.

George Balthrop, Clifton, VA USA
89 and 85 XJ-S Coupes; 89 XJ40 VDP-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Janzic m_nikola_janzic_paulet@yahoo.com

I have been hearing noises (like Darth Vader
talking) from behind the dash, it is all that is left to
do.

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4

In reply to a message from George Balthrop sent Tue 11 Sep 2012:

makes it a simple test to remove the hoses to the expansion valve /
evaporator and blany off the hose ends and pull a high vacuume .
This will soon test the rest of the system . Remember the
evaporator works at low pressure after the TXV valve so a vac only
test is easy and will soon prove the evap is leaking . I ust this
method to bypass any AC part to confirm it leaks with either a
vacuume or pressure with oxygen free nitrogen–
The original message included these comments:

(4) Lastly, remove the fittings from the evaporator on the firewall
side and pressure test the evaporator BEFORE tearing everything apart.
Do this last, as if it flunks the pressure test, you KNOW the
evaporator is bad, and you have NOT created extra work as those
fittings will need to be removed anyway.

–
95 XJR6, 94 XJS 6.0 coupe, 04 XK8 ,99 Ka
Croydon , SURREY, United Kingdom
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5

In reply to a message from George Balthrop sent Tue 11 Sep 2012:

George, always such good advise.

It is too late to change course. My current mechanic
insists that I am present when the evaporator is removed
so I ca see myself what’s going on, and the I already got
the call to go over in a couple of hours.

I have a sickening feeling I will find the evaporator
there is the original and not the one I paid another shop
to do a while back.

The hours spend by different, reputable, Jaguar specific
mechanics, to find leaks is unreal. Dye, sniffers,
mirrors, different types of mirrors…the evaporator is
the only thing left.

We will know if it was leaking or not when we remove it. I
will be sure to update the list.–
95 AJ16 http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1325653847 Houston
Houston, TX, United States
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6

My cars a/c has been done to death…

Just FYI: On my '83, after converting from R-12 to R-134a, I
couldn’t get the Schraeder valves to quit leaking. They would not
leak when the car was off, they would only leak when the compressor
was running – possibly in response to the pressure fluctuations
inside the pipe, possibly in response to the vibrations throughout, I
dunno, but there was no stopping the leaks. Replaced the Scraeder
valves themselves, no help. What’s more, the R-134a adapters for the
R-12 ports came with cheesy plastic caps that might keep dust out but
they certainly weren’t of any use for keeping freon in.

But I had an option. Since my car was a conversion, I had the option
of removing the R-134a adapters (after charging) and reinstalling the
hard metal caps I had that fit the R-12 fittings. These aren’t the
little stamped aluminum junk, these are hex-sided solid brass heavy
things. Tighten three grunts, ain’t no gas coming out. Don’t care
what the Schraeder valves do after that. I needed to remove the low-
pressure adapter anyway for hood clearance, so that was my solution.
Worked fine.

On my present Japanese appliances, which of course came from the
factory with R-134a, there are also plastic caps on the fittings –
but they’re not cheesy, they actually have O-rings inside so they can
truly seal the port, no need to rely upon the Schraeder valve on a
day-in day-out basis.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 11 Sep 2012 at 7:12, Mark Janzic wrote:

7

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Tue 11 Sep 2012:

I have just completed my evaporator replacement as far as
installation goes. I’ll have it vacuum tested and charged in a few
days. In selecting my Aluminum evaporator vs copper the A/C shop
claims he has had no problems with 134 in these Aluminum
aftermarket units…so far. I had to tie wrap the expansion bulb
to the low side pipe as there was no copper’‘tunnel’’ on this
evaporator, then cover with insulating foam. Bernard E site had
some info on the amount of oil required for each component
replacement.The job was tedious but not overwhelming. I took many
photos and labeled every disconnection with tape… electrical
connections were EC(1-30) taped to both connectors.plumbing=Pb(#)
vacuum =V(#) most hours were consumed with difficlty replacing hard
to reach parts, and those pesky blue vent hoses.A good solution on
them was a heat gun and an angled pick to strech them back over the
brown stub vents. I f anyone needs any insights just e-mail me. I’m
not able to post any photos …don’t know why. I extended the time
required to complete this work by doing some replacements of
peeling felt and dash bulb upgrades…total actual labor about 20
hours., plus refreshments., frequently. Study ahead of time the
steering wheel, seat and dash removal instructions to save
headaches.–
89 XJS coupe ABS TH700 Raleigh NC
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8

In reply to a message from D J Kritzer sent Thu 13 Sep 2012:

Hello all,

Update on my evaporator:

The good:

1)the replacement unit is copper.
2)Old Evaporator was indeed leaking.

The bad:

1)the evaporator in there is NOT a three year old unit.
This car is never driven in the rain and goes from the
garage at home to the garage at work when driven. We found
foam falling apart and all sorts of leaves and ugliness
there. My first mechanic kept the 700.00 evaporator I got
from Jaguar and charged labor for it.

Its worth noting that my (current) mechanic looked
everywhere for leaks. He tried the drains, he tried
looking at the foam the system would spit out for traces
of dye. Nothing

Hopefully my ac problems are really behind me now and my
only problem is the legal ones I will have to initiate
with the shop who stole from me.–
95 AJ16 http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1325653847 Houston
Houston, TX, United States
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9

In reply to a message from Mark Janzic sent Thu 13 Sep 2012:

Hi Mark, sure hope your a/c issues will come to an end with
this discovery. I have been following this over the last
few years and I can only imagine how frustrated and relieved
you must have felt to uncover your part was not replaced as
you thought. Did you have a chance to re due the interior
yet or have you been spending your time tracking this a/c
problem down?

Cheers, Todd–
TVE
Boise, Idaho, United States
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10

In reply to a message from Mark Janzic sent Thu 13 Sep 2012:

ABC (US TV network) had a show a few weeks ago where they
loosened a wire in a home AC system that was otherwise in
perfect condition. Repair companies were called and the
technician was secretly videotaped.

Estimates from several companies were in the $600 - $1000
range, and virtually all were dishonest about what was
wrong–for example, a refrigerant leak even though they
didn’t use gauges. IIRC there wasn’t a single
honest/competent technician/company in the lot.–
The original message included these comments:

Hopefully my ac problems are really behind me now and my
only problem is the legal ones I will have to initiate
with the shop who stole from me.

–
Bob Wilkinson, 73 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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11

In reply to a message from thebige sent Thu 13 Sep 2012:

Todd,

Believe it or not, more relieved than frustrated.

I’ve been too busy with other work to complete the
interior. Hopefully this month. As you can imagine the
evaporator took a lot of my budget :-(–
95 AJ16 http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1325653847 Houston
Houston, TX, United States
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12

In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Thu 13 Sep 2012:

Robert,

I always assume that most are out to screw you over, but I
always assume that they will find fictitious problems to
charge labor on while still replacing the actual part. It
was pretty bold of this mechanic/thief to keep the 700.00
dollar part I bought.–
95 AJ16 http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1325653847 Houston
Houston, TX, United States
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13

In reply to a message from Mark Janzic sent Thu 13 Sep 2012:

Here are some pictures of the leaking evaporator and my
car in a million pieces:


95 AJ16 http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1325653847 Houston
Houston, TX, United States
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14

In reply to a message from Mark Janzic sent Thu 13 Sep 2012:

Hopefully you found your leak. Did you find any evidence of
dye on the evaporator? When they leak slightly you usually do
not see the dye in the drain or get an electronic leak
detector to find the leak. In my 27 years of experience you
have to eliminate everything else and then the only thing
left is the evaporator. I would say less than 1/2 of the
evaporators I have found leaking were detectible with dye or
a ‘‘sniffer’’ while still installed.

It is a shame that you had a dishonest shop previous charge
you. You could take them to small claims court to recover
your money. If you have good clear photos and a write up from
your current repair shop you will win. In CT it costs $35 to
file a small claim. I am sure the current shop will be glad
to help. Us honest guy will be glad to try to put a hurting
on a thief. That shop stole your money if they did not
replace the part you paid them to do.–
Greg 1985 XJS HE DANA rear
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15

In my 27 years
of experience you have to eliminate everything else and then the only
thing left is the evaporator.

I gave up one ever having AC again when a tech diagnosed evaporator leakage.
Ten or so years later I decided to fix the AC myself. The evaporator was the
only piece that did not have to be replaced. As nearly as I could tell the
tech had contaminated the sniffer where it was leaking, the compressor,
missed the call, then stuck it under the dash or something.

Ed Sowell
'76 XJ-S coupe, red
http://www.efsowell.us/ed/myJag.html

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16

In reply to a message from Ed Sowell sent Fri 14 Sep 2012:

Ed,

I do not like the electronic leak detectors. In my experience
they do not work very well for automotive A/C systems. I much
prefer the UV dye. I can tell you most so called auto
technicians do not understand A/C.–
Greg 1985 XJS HE DANA rear
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17

In reply to a message from Mark Janzic sent Tue 11 Sep 2012:

A U-Tube vidio would be nice to get a good look at the car with the
unit out!

Dan–
The original message included these comments:

So the evaporator is being replaced today, new drier and
exp valve as well of course. The crumbling foam that comes
out from the vents into my eyes will be replaced as well,
and the clips that hold the defroster vents in place so my
window won’t condense at night.

–
DanS
columbus ga. usa, United States
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18

In reply to a message from Greg Edge sent Fri 14 Sep 2012:

Greg, my current mechanic invested dozens of his hours
(many of them free) trying to locate the leak. Dye,
sniffers (-- a sniffer that picked up the slightest trace
of R134 on a leaking Valve) looked for traced of dye in
the drains under a billion conditions. No go.

There is a corner of the old evaporator that has lots of
dye on it. It was leaking for sure.

I went to face the old mechanic to give him a chance to
make things right. He said that old 1994 date stamped part
with fossilized leaves is the three year old unit he
installed. He’s a shameless crook. I am still finding the
most effective way to proceed at this point, so we will
see.–
The original message included these comments:

Hopefully you found your leak. Did you find any evidence of
dye on the evaporator? When they leak slightly you usually do
detector to find the leak. In my 27 years of experience you
have to eliminate everything else and then the only thing
left is the evaporator. I would say less than 1/2 of the
evaporators I have found leaking were detectible with dye or
a ‘‘sniffer’’ while still installed.

–
95 AJ16 http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1325653847 Houston
Houston, TX, United States
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