[xj-s] Fuel Tank Fittings

XJ-S
1

Hello All,

I had to pull my fuel tank this week and I’m having a problem getting
one of the threaded lines back in. Specifically, the return line from
the expansion tank (smaller of the two threaded fittings) seems to be
buggered and I can’t get it started. I’d like to clean up the threads
on the line and in the tank.

Can someone tell me what size tap and die I’ll need? Any other pearls
of wisdom are appreciated as well.

Thanks,
Odysseus
'88 US Spec v-12 coupe
Bucks County, Pa, USA

// please trim quoted text to context only

2

IIRC Ed had this problem and had to use a dental pick
to clean the threads.

— Odysseus Marcopolus omarcopolus@comcast.net
wrote:

Hello All,

I had to pull my fuel tank this week and I’m having
a problem getting
one of the threaded lines back in.

Geoff Green

96 XJ6 X300, 95 XJS 4.0 conv, 76 XJ-S, 61 E-type OTS

Keeping track of every Jaguar XJ-S, with your help.
http://www.xjsdata.com

3.6 XJS Register paulzimmer@btopenworld.com

Eventer Register pascal.mathieu@perso.be

// please trim quoted text to context only

3

Hi Odysseus,

If you mean the fitting on the rear face of the tank, below & to the
right of the gauge sender, that is 1/2", 24 threads per inch. That is
an unusual tap/die size and NOT included in many sets.

If you can find a die to clean up the male threads, that is doable.
However, if you examine the female fitting in the tank, you will see
that there is a seat just inside the thread, so you would need a
special, square-ended tap for that. Hopefully only the male thread on
the hose fitting is bummed-up.

George Balthrop, Clifton, VA USA
85 & 89 XJ-S Coupes; 89 XJ40 VDP-----Original Message-----
From: Odysseus Marcopolus omarcopolus@comcast.net

I had to pull my fuel tank this week and I’m having a problem getting
one of the threaded lines back in. Specifically, the return line from
the expansion tank (smaller of the two threaded fittings) seems to be
buggered and I can’t get it started. I’d like to clean up the threads
on the line and in the tank.
Can someone tell me what size tap and die I’ll need? Any other pearls
of wisdom are appreciated as well.

Email and AIM finally together. You’ve gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com

// please trim quoted text to context only

4

gbalthropxjs@aol.com wrote:

If you mean the fitting on the rear face of the tank, below & to the
right of the gauge sender, that is 1/2", 24 threads per inch. That is
an unusual tap/die size and NOT included in many sets.

Well, a quick run to Sears and Home Depot pretty much confirm this. Not
a 1/2", 24 threads per inch tap / die / bolt / nut to be found.

If you can find a die to clean up the male threads, that is doable.
However, if you examine the female fitting in the tank, you will see
that there is a seat just inside the thread, so you would need a
special, square-ended tap for that. Hopefully only the male thread on
the hose fitting is bummed-up.

Probably try to use a small file on the male end today. Problem is, I
can’t tell if the tank - female - fitting is goofed up. If I only had a
bolt or something with that thread size I could at least try and run it
in to test.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Thanks George.

Regards,
Odysseus
'88 US Spec v-12 coupe
Bucks County, Pa, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Odysseus Marcopolus <@Odysseus_Marcopolus1>

I had to pull my fuel tank this week and I’m having a problem getting
one of the threaded lines back in. Specifically, the return line from
the expansion tank (smaller of the two threaded fittings) seems to be
buggered and I can’t get it started. I’d like to clean up the threads
on the line and in the tank.
Can someone tell me what size tap and die I’ll need? Any other pearls
of wisdom are appreciated as well.

Email and AIM finally together. You’ve gotta check out free AOL Mail!

// please trim quoted text to context only

5

Odysseus ,

Good to hear from you… it’s been a while!

Geoff’s recollection is correct, but in my case it was just residue
from the
coating process when I had the tank RENUed.

As I was toiling with that issue another though occurred to me. Get a
male fitting
from another Jag (from a junk yard) and make a notch in the end with a
small
triangular file. That should scrape out debris in the female threads.
But try the dental pick
first since you can get one at any drugstore.

It the female threads have been buggered due to tightening after a
crooked starting
it’s a more difficult problem. After cleaning the threads with a
dental pick,
try getting a good straight start and carefully tighten while holding
the tubing
absolutely square. The only way to do so is with the hose off, in my
opinion.

When you do get the thing started, you should pressurize the tank with
a bicycle pump
and test the seal with soapy water. In the end, my fuel outlet
fitting leaked due to
a bad seat. I finally used a thread sealer to get it air tight.

Ed Sowell
1976 XJ-S
http://www.efsowell.us/ed/myJag.html

IIRC Ed had this problem and had to use a dental pick
to clean the threads.

— Odysseus Marcopolus omarcopolus@comcast.net
wrote:

Hello All,

I had to pull my fuel tank this week and I’m having
a problem getting
one of the threaded lines back in.

// please trim quoted text to context only

6

Ed Sowell wrote:

Odysseus ,

Good to hear from you… it’s been a while!

Hello Ed. Been rather busy of late and enjoying relatively trouble-free
motoring.

It the female threads have been buggered due to tightening after a
crooked starting
it’s a more difficult problem.

I’m just wondering. If the female threads in the tank get buggered,
what would be the downside to having a shop replace the threaded fitting
with one that will accept a hose and clamp similar to the feed line out
of the tank? Any thoughts?

Regards,
Odysseus
'88 US Spec v-12 coupe
Bucks County, Pa, USA

// please trim quoted text to context only

7

I will be putting my wife’s 1990 XJ-S up on ramps this afternoon to
replace the squealing crankshaft damper. I previously verified that
this was the cause of a squeal on start up by marking the damper and
pulley with chalk and observing that the damper and pulley move after
start up (and the annoying squealing).

I have a replacement damper on hand, and have reviewed the ROM, Kirby’s
book, Ed Sowell’s write up on his website and the archives.

I do not plan on removing the radiator (step #1 in the ROM) at this
point, and suspect that I won’t have to, but I am prepared to do so if
necessary.

If anyone has some recent experience and advice with this task please
reply and let me know.

Regards,

Paul M. Novak

1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible
1984 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1969 E-Type Fixed Head Coupe
1957 MK VIII Saloon
1985 XJ6 Vanden Plas (parts)
Ramona, CA
@Paul_M_Novak1

// please trim quoted text to context only

8

I’m just wondering. If the female threads in the tank get buggered,

what would be the downside to having a shop replace the
threaded fitting
with one that will accept a hose and clamp similar to the
feed line out
of the tank? Any thoughts?

that is the though in my mind when I took the tank back to the shop
that
did the RENU. I was prepared to tell them to replace all those
fittings.
The first rude awakening was to learn that the necessary cutting &
welding
would require recoating the inside of the tank… at least $200. Then
I learned they
would not even quote a price till they cut into the tank to see what
was on the other
side of those fittings. That quickly fell to Plan B status, with
cleaning the threads and
thread sealer ad Plan A. I think Plan A worked, although I’m now
focused on fuel pump
fitting outlet fitting ( the check valve on the preHE) which is once
again filling the boot
with fuel odors.

Ed Sowell
1976 XJ-S
http://www.efsowell.us/ed/myJag.html

// please trim quoted text to context only

9

Bernard,

Thanks.  This is excellent.  The heavy work begins tomorrow

morning.

Regards,

Paul M. Novak

1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible
1984 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1969 E-Type Fixed Head Coupe
1957 MK VIII Saloon
1985 XJ6 Vanden Plas (parts)
Ramona, CA
@Paul_M_Novak1

Behalf Of Bernard Embden-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org] On
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 4:19 PM
To: Jaguar XJS List
Subject: [xj-s] Crankshaft damper removal and replacement 1990 XJ-S,
5.3L V12 {Scanned}

I will be putting my wife’s 1990 XJ-S up on ramps this afternoon to
replace the squealing crankshaft damper.

If anyone has some recent experience and advice with this task please
reply and let me know.

Regards,

Paul M. Novak

1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible

Paul

This might help

http://bernardembden.com/xjs/crankseal/index.htm

Bernard Embden
bernardembden.com

// please trim quoted text to context only

// please trim quoted text to context only

10

gbalthropxjs@aol.com wrote:

If you mean the fitting on the rear face of the tank, below & to the
right of the gauge sender, that is 1/2", 24 threads per inch. That is
an unusual tap/die size and NOT included in many sets.

If you can find a die to clean up the male threads, that is doable.
However, if you examine the female fitting in the tank, you will see
that there is a seat just inside the thread, so you would need a
special, square-ended tap for that.

Or you could just take your brand new, hard-to-find tap and cut the
nose off of it!

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context only

11

Kirbert wrote:

gbalthropxjs@aol.com wrote

If you mean the fitting on the rear face of the tank, below & to the
right of the gauge sender, that is 1/2", 24 threads per inch. That is
an unusual tap/die size and NOT included in many sets.

If you can find a die to clean up the male threads, that is doable.
However, if you examine the female fitting in the tank, you will see
that there is a seat just inside the thread, so you would need a
special, square-ended tap for that.

Or you could just take your brand new, hard-to-find tap and cut the
nose off of it!

Well, immediate problem solved. I decided to have at the male fitting
with a small file. Made sure the threads - which were a little buggered
at the end - were cut nice and clean all the way to the end. Then I
used Ed’s dental tool method to clean any debris from the female
threads. Went right in!

FWIW, no one carries a 1/2"-24 tap or die. It’s certainly a specialty
item. My local hardware store looked it up in their McMaster-Carr
catalog and did find the tap for US$27 - their cost.

So, although the car’s back on the road, this won’t be the end of the
saga. I had pulled the tank because I thought it was leaking again.
Took it to the shop and they couldn’t find anything. They’re a
reputable business - they’ve done good work for me before and they have
a good reputation in the area for doing radiators, gas tanks, etc.

Nothing is - obviously - leaking at this point. I left the boot pretty
much stripped down to nothing so I can keep an eye on anything that
starts leaking again. Whatever it was originally, there was enough gas
that it collected at the bottom of the trunk. We’ll see…

As always, thanks to all for your advice and offers of assistance - on
and off list. I certainly wouldn’t be into my eighth year on this xj-s
without this group.

Thanks again,
Odysseus
'88 US Spec xj-s v-12 coupe
Bucks County, Pa, USA

// please trim quoted text to context only

12

With that much fuel I would assume it’s leaking on the high pressure
side of the
pump. Fold facial tissue to a strip about 1" wide. Wrap it around the
various
joints and tape it in place. After a drive feel which one is wet.

Ed Sowell
1976 XJ-S
http://www.efsowell.us/ed/myJag.html

Nothing is - obviously - leaking at this point. I left the
boot pretty
much stripped down to nothing so I can keep an eye on anything that
starts leaking again. Whatever it was originally, there was
enough gas
that it collected at the bottom of the trunk. We’ll see…

// please trim quoted text to context only

13

In reply to a message from Paul M. Novak sent Fri 23 Nov 2007:

I just replaced mine; it’s not a difficult job. My damper was
totally separated but turned the alternator after lots of squealing
on start up. Just follow the Book and get the big socket (33 mm)
that fits the bolt. Don’t remove the radiator. It’s not
necessary. While you are in there, you can check all the belts,
various leaks, sway bar bushings, etc. The major problem was
removing the fan and the shroud.
I am now looking to eliminate my air pump and replace that with
another alternator; so far my Bosch alternator seems different
from the GM that Kirby recommends. I am also concerned about
replacing the flat groved belt with the V belt. I will report
later when I have completed the project. Paul, thanks for your
various messages on the forum.
George Goodridge
91 XJS V 12–
The original message included these comments:

I will be putting my wife’s 1990 XJ-S up on ramps this afternoon to
replace the squealing crankshaft damper. I previously verified that
this was the cause of a squeal on start up by marking the damper and
pulley with chalk and observing that the damper and pulley move after
start up (and the annoying squealing).

–
ggoodrid
Durham, NC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

// please trim quoted text to context only

14

Or you could just take your brand new, hard-to-find tap and cut the
nose off of it!

– Kirbert-----------------------------------------------------------------

In the States it may well be a hard-to-find tap.
The chances are it is a BSP thread. Some of those have the same TPI
as NPT so you could wing it with a bit of luck.

Indispensible for the serious Jag owner is a thread chart and a set
of thread gauges.

The chart probably has to be from the U/K, since there are threads
used in the Jag not commonly used in the U.S.A.
Mine is from Australia which become totally metric 30 years ago.
However, you can still buy items, especially plumbing hardware, which
are a legacy of Imperial days when Australia had all British threads.

For that reason we have thread charts covering metric and imperial
threads and we can still buy all the common imperial taps and dies.
Charts are usually free from industrial hardware supply stores,
since they get them for free courtesy of tap and die and also drill
manufacturers.
Thread gauges you get to pay for, but look around and you can find cheap ones.

Richard Dowling, Melbourne, Australia.
1979 XJ-S V12 coupe, 1988 XJ-S V12 convertible, 1985 XJ6.

// please trim quoted text to context only

15

Richard Dowling wrote:

Or you could just take your brand new, hard-to-find tap and cut the
nose off of it!

– Kirbert

In the States it may well be a hard-to-find tap.
The chances are it is a BSP thread. Some of those have the same TPI
as NPT so you could wing it with a bit of luck.

McMaster-Carr has an online catalog with a great search tool for finding
just about any configuration. Go to www.mcmaster.com and look in the
“Machining and Clamping” section for the links on taps / dies. If you
search on 1/2-24, it comes up as NS (National Special) <www.mcmaster.com>

Regards,
Odysseus
'88 US Spec v-12 coupe
Bucks County, Pa, USA

// please trim quoted text to context only

16

ggoodrid wrote:

I am now looking to eliminate my air pump and replace that with
another alternator; so far my Bosch alternator seems different from
the GM that Kirby recommends.

Well, yeah. The OEM Bosch fits in the OEM location. A GM CS130 fits
better in the air pump location.

I am also concerned about replacing the
flat groved belt with the V belt.

Part of the point is using the V belt, because the air pump serves as
the belt tensioner for the A/C compressor belt. The OEM alt serves
only as a belt tensioner for itself. By installing a CS130 in place
of the air pump, you eliminate one belt – in the case of later Bosch
alt cars, the ribbed belt – and you eliminate any and all drive off
the crank damper. The CS130 in the air pump location is driven off
the pulley, not the damper; the damper shouldn’t ever fail again.

I do, however, recommend using a fairly large V-belt pulley on the
CS130. For one thing, the A/C compressor uses a thick V belt, not a
thin one. If you buy a suitable pulley for the CS130 (any alt shop
should be able to provide one), it’s a bit larger in diameter than
you are accustomed to seeing on an alt. Doesn’t hurt anything; the
CS130 turns a bit slower than it would with a conventional size
pulley, but it charges so well anyway that it’s not a problem. It
also prevents overrevving the alt at redline.

Bosch alt owners should note that the Bosch alt is 115 amp while the
CS130 is only 105 amp. I don’t believe this would pose a problem,
since the earlier Lucas alt was only 75 amp and I don’t believe the
XJ-S gained any significant electrical loads when the Bosch alt was
introduced. With the notable exception of the convertible top, of
course, but that’s what seems to cause the sheared dampers and
squealing so convertible owners will probably be happy to switch to
the CS130.

The CS130 can be rebuilt to 140 amp, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
The load issues all seem to happen at idle, and increasing the alt
rating usually decreases the output at idle.

There are “heavy duty” rebuild kits for the CS130 that apparently
include a larger rear bearing and a bigger heat sink for the diodes.
That probably would be a good idea, if it’s not too expensive an
option wherever you acquire your alt.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context only

17

My damper replacement project is a little behind schedule but I hope to
complete it by this weekend.

The car is up on ramps and I noticed that my replacement damper does not
have the “star” for the crankshaft position sensor. Do I have the
wrong damper, or do I remove the “star” from the damper on my wife’s car
and somehow attach it to the new damper before installation?

Regards,

Paul M. Novak

1990 XJ-S Classic Collection convertible
1984 XJ6 Vanden Plas
1969 E-Type Fixed Head Coupe
1957 MK VIII Saloon
1985 XJ6 Vanden Plas (parts)
Ramona, CA
@Paul_M_Novak1-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org [mailto:owner-xj-s@jag-lovers.org] On
Behalf Of Paul M. Novak
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 11:30 AM
To: xj-s@jag-lovers.org
Subject: [xj-s] Crankshaft damper removal and replacement 1990 XJ-S,
5.3L V12 {Scanned}

I will be putting my wife’s 1990 XJ-S up on ramps this afternoon to
replace the squealing crankshaft damper. I previously verified that
this was the cause of a squeal on start up by marking the damper and
pulley with chalk and observing that the damper and pulley move after
start up (and the annoying squealing).

I have a replacement damper on hand, and have reviewed the ROM, Kirby’s
book, Ed Sowell’s write up on his website and the archives.

I do not plan on removing the radiator (step #1 in the ROM) at this
point, and suspect that I won’t have to, but I am prepared to do so if
necessary.

If anyone has some recent experience and advice with this task please
reply and let me know.

Regards,

Paul M. Novak

// please trim quoted text to context only

18

In reply to a message from Paul M. Novak sent Wed 5 Dec 2007:

Just unbolt the one from the damper you removed and bolt it to the
new damper.
Chadbourn Bolles
803 532 6257–
Dr. Chadbourn Bolles, JaguarXJ_S@Yahoo.com
Leesville, SC, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
–Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

// please trim quoted text to context only