[xj-s] Lucas Distributor Dis-Assembly

After reading “the Book”, decided I had better take a run at the
distributor in my 76 XJS. No great surprise, it has the Lucas
Distributor. I was a little concerned after reviewing the portion which
detailed methods (and success/failure rates) for the removal of the
trigger disk from the shaft. Seems they have a history of “Easy removal
in 50 pieces or more”. Well, the point is, I successfully removed mine
(God protects fools). Thought you might be interested in the method I
used. (the ones presented didn’t seem to have that promising a success
rate… so nothing to loose)

At any rate.  The methods presented described various ways of

restraining & prying and applying pressure equally to the brittle disk.
The method I used, has proven fairly effective in other situations, So
what the heck…

Once the distributor was removed from the car, and the various c-clips

& washers were out of the way. I found there was a considerable varnish
build up on the shaft. This was bound to foul the removal process. So,
remove as much of that crud as possible. A little steel wool or emery
cloth works wonders. Then, on to the “Process” By supporting the
weight of the distributor by grasping the trigger disk, I simply rapped
on the top end of the distributor shaft repeatedly with a piece of
hardwood. A plastic hammer may do the job, but my only concern there
would be that it may provide too much force at impact. But, with a
little care, should provide the same results. Anyway, after a few
minutes of rapping and tapping, I had the intact disk in hand. I should
mention that once I had the top of the distributor shaft, flush with the
top of the disk, I placed a brass drift into the center of the shaft so
I could tap it all the way through. If you have a small piece of
tubing, pipe, or even a long reach socket that would fit into the center
and fit around the screw head, rather than on top of it, this should do
the same job, and still protect the screw head. By using the brass
drift, I caused no damage to the screw inside which connects the upper
half to the lower half. To clarify an additional point. I held the
distributor clear of the work bench, so that it didn’t impact the bench
with each strike. It’s simply an inertia method of removal. The
flexion of your arm cushions the blows so that very little of the impact
force is applied to the disk. It is instead transferred fairly
completely into the shaft & distributor body, whose own weight now in
essence try to pull themselves free of the plastic disk.

Well, that's about the best I can do for describing how I did this.

Hopefully, someone out there will find it of benefit.

Oh..  You know that previous statement I made about God & Idiots..

Well, I found my centrifugal advance was still functioning, although not
quite as freely as I’d like… Found the well documented layer of
varnish on everything. But, all-in-all, not nearly as bad as I was
expecting.

From: “Mackie, Tom (Fire Hall 1)” Tom.Mackie@City.Saskatoon.Sk.CA
Subject: [xj-s] Lucas Distributor Dis-Assembly

    After reading "the Book", decided I had better take a run at the

distributor in my 76 XJS. No great surprise, it has the Lucas
Distributor. I was a little concerned after reviewing the portion which
detailed methods (and success/failure rates) for the removal of the
trigger disk from the shaft. Seems they have a history of “Easy removal
in 50 pieces or more”. Well, the point is, I successfully removed mine
(God protects fools). Thought you might be interested in the method I
used. (the ones presented didn’t seem to have that promising a success
rate… so nothing to loose)

    At any rate.  The methods presented described various ways of

restraining & prying and applying pressure equally to the brittle disk.
The method I used, has proven fairly effective in other situations, So
what the heck…

    Once the distributor was removed from the car, and the various c-clips

& washers were out of the way. I found there was a considerable varnish
build up on the shaft. This was bound to foul the removal process. So,
remove as much of that crud as possible. A little steel wool or emery
cloth works wonders. Then, on to the “Process” By supporting the
weight of the distributor by grasping the trigger disk, I simply rapped
on the top end of the distributor shaft repeatedly with a piece of
hardwood. A plastic hammer may do the job, but my only concern there
would be that it may provide too much force at impact. But, with a
little care, should provide the same results. Anyway, after a few
minutes of rapping and tapping, I had the intact disk in hand. I should
mention that once I had the top of the distributor shaft, flush with the
top of the disk, I placed a brass drift into the center of the shaft so
I could tap it all the way through. If you have a small piece of
tubing, pipe, or even a long reach socket that would fit into the center
and fit around the screw head, rather than on top of it, this should do
the same job, and still protect the screw head. By using the brass
drift, I caused no damage to the screw inside which connects the upper
half to the lower half. To clarify an additional point. I held the
distributor clear of the work bench, so that it didn’t impact the bench
with each strike. It’s simply an inertia method of removal. The
flexion of your arm cushions the blows so that very little of the impact
force is applied to the disk. It is instead transferred fairly
completely into the shaft & distributor body, whose own weight now in
essence try to pull themselves free of the plastic disk.

    Well, that's about the best I can do for describing how I did this.

Hopefully, someone out there will find it of benefit.

    Oh..  You know that previous statement I made about God & Idiots..

Well, I found my centrifugal advance was still functioning, although not
quite as freely as I’d like… Found the well documented layer of
varnish on everything. But, all-in-all, not nearly as bad as I was
expecting.

Tom

It might be worth checking that your advance is operating at the correct
rate whilst you have the distributor out.

My one was a mile out even though the springs looked standard.

Here is what my Jaguar Manual states is correct.

Distributor RPM Distributor Advance degrees
100 nil
400 nil
600 .5 to 2.5
1000 6.0 to 8.0
1300 8.0 to 10.0
2600 11.0 to 13.0
3500 12.0 to 14.0

It made a great difference in the running and idling when it was put
right

Regards

GeofDate: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 04:51:52 -0600

    After reading "the Book", decided I had better take a run at the

distributor in my 76 XJS. No great surprise, it has the Lucas
Distributor. I was a little concerned after reviewing the portion which
detailed methods (and success/failure rates) for the removal of the
trigger disk from the shaft. Seems they have a history of “Easy removal
in 50 pieces or more”. Well, the point is, I successfully removed mine
(God protects fools). Thought you might be interested in the method I
used. (the ones presented didn’t seem to have that promising a success
rate… so nothing to loose)

Tom

It might be worth checking that your advance is operating at the correct
rate whilst you have the distributor out.

My one was a mile out even though the springs looked standard.

Here is what my Jaguar Manual states is correct.

Distributor RPM Distributor Advance degrees
100 nil
400 nil
600 .5 to 2.5
1000 6.0 to 8.0
1300 8.0 to 10.0
2600 11.0 to 13.0
3500 12.0 to 14.0

It made a great difference in the running and idling when it was put right

Excellent advise Geof. Thanks.

When you checked yours, did you just use a timing light, and bring the

rpm. to the various levels? Or did you use some other method? What type
of symptoms was your car displaying? Were they similar to the frozen
advance? Do you think the springs that were in place had been changed,
stretched, fatigued?

It might be worth checking that your advance is operating at
the correct
rate whilst you have the distributor out.

My one was a mile out even though the springs looked standard.

Here is what my Jaguar Manual states is correct.

Distributor RPM Distributor Advance degrees
100 nil
400 nil
600 .5 to 2.5
1000 6.0 to 8.0
1300 8.0 to 10.0
2600 11.0 to 13.0
3500 12.0 to 14.0

It made a great difference in the running and idling when it was put
right

Regards

Geof

Those are really useful figures, which aren’t in my manual (SIII ROM).
What manual are we talking about?

Also, a point worth bearing in mind is that the distributor rotates at
half the speed of the crank. So both columns ought to be doubled if we
want to talk about the engine rather than just the distributor.

Interestingly, that suggests that full advance doesn’t happen until the
engine is doing 7000 rpm, ie past the red line.

Craig

At 09:04 am 19/04/99 +0100, Craig Sawyers wrote:

Here is what my Jaguar Manual states is correct.

Distributor RPM Distributor Advance degrees
100 nil
400 nil
600 .5 to 2.5
1000 6.0 to 8.0
1300 8.0 to 10.0
2600 11.0 to 13.0
3500 12.0 to 14.0

Those are really useful figures, which aren’t in my manual (SIII ROM).
What manual are we talking about?

Back on Nov 4 1998, I posted a whole set of pre-HE advance curves to this
list(from Lucas and Jaguar manuals). This is definitely a pre-HE curve.

regards,
Mike

Mackie, Tom (Fire Hall 1) wrote:

    After reading "the Book", decided I had better take a run at the

distributor in my 76 XJS. No great surprise, it has the Lucas
Distributor. I was a little concerned after reviewing the portion which
detailed methods (and success/failure rates) for the removal of the
trigger disk from the shaft. Seems they have a history of “Easy removal
in 50 pieces or more”. Well, the point is, I successfully removed mine
(God protects fools). Thought you might be interested in the method I
used. (the ones presented didn’t seem to have that promising a success
rate… so nothing to loose)

Tom

It might be worth checking that your advance is operating at the correct
rate whilst you have the distributor out.

My one was a mile out even though the springs looked standard.

Here is what my Jaguar Manual states is correct.

Distributor RPM Distributor Advance degrees
100 nil
400 nil
600 .5 to 2.5
1000 6.0 to 8.0
1300 8.0 to 10.0
2600 11.0 to 13.0
3500 12.0 to 14.0

It made a great difference in the running and idling when it was put right

Excellent advise Geof. Thanks.

    When you checked yours, did you just use a timing light, and bring the

rpm. to the various levels? Or did you use some other method? What type
of symptoms was your car displaying? Were they similar to the frozen
advance? Do you think the springs that were in place had been changed,
stretched, fatigued?

Hi Tom good to hear from you

The saga started with the typical seized distributor. This caused
effectively a retarded spark at high speeds and/or a advanced spark at
idle.
When I overhauled the distributor I thought the advance rate unlikely to
be wrong. However when I set the timing to 18 degrees BTC at 3000 RPM
the idling was extremely retarded and impossible to get a satisfactory
cold running/start up performance.
The HE section of my manual suggests 3.5 degrees BTC at 500 RPM and of
course the 18 Degrees at 3000 RPM.
These readings are all without the vacuum connected.
I picked that there was a problem with the timing light.

However to corrected I had to approach an Auto Electric shop and use
their distributor test bed.
This machine allows you to run the distributor and shows the timing of
the spark at various distributor speeds. This is why the manual gives
you the distributor speeds.
This was a time consuming job to get it reasonably within the specs.
I had to replace one spring with a lighter one and do a lot of
experimentation.
I can’t explain how it was so far out.
However the running of the engine was ample reward. Along with a host of
other tuning problems which I have now rectified the engine pulls
unbelievably well. Better than the few other ones I have driven.

Incidently the HE figures my manual lists are as follows:

Engine Speed Degrees (Deacelerating with vacuum off)
6,200 20 - 24
4,000 18 - 22
2000 12 - 16
900 nil

Regards Geof

Mike Morrin wrote:

At 09:04 am 19/04/99 +0100, Craig Sawyers wrote:

Here is what my Jaguar Manual states is correct.

Distributor RPM Distributor Advance degrees
100 nil
400 nil
600 .5 to 2.5
1000 6.0 to 8.0
1300 8.0 to 10.0
2600 11.0 to 13.0
3500 12.0 to 14.0

Those are really useful figures, which aren’t in my manual (SIII ROM).
What manual are we talking about?

Back on Nov 4 1998, I posted a whole set of pre-HE advance curves to this
list(from Lucas and Jaguar manuals). This is definitely a pre-HE curve.

regards,
Mike

Right Mike

I was replying to Craigs Email and his vehicle is a 76 as I recall

Regards

Geof

It might be worth checking that your advance is operating at the correct
rate whilst you have the distributor out.

My one was a mile out even though the springs looked standard.

Here is what my Jaguar Manual states is correct.

Distributor RPM Distributor Advance degrees
100 nil
400 nil
600 .5 to 2.5
1000 6.0 to 8.0
1300 8.0 to 10.0
2600 11.0 to 13.0
3500 12.0 to 14.0

It made a great difference in the running and idling when it was put right

Excellent advise Geof. Thanks.

    When you checked yours, did you just use a timing light, and bring

the
rpm. to the various levels? Or did you use some other method? What type
of symptoms was your car displaying? Were they similar to the frozen
advance? Do you think the springs that were in place had been changed,
stretched, fatigued?

Hi Tom good to hear from you

The saga started with the typical seized distributor. This caused
effectively a retarded spark at high speeds and/or a advanced spark at
idle.
When I overhauled the distributor I thought the advance rate unlikely to
be wrong. However when I set the timing to 18 degrees BTC at 3000 RPM
the idling was extremely retarded and impossible to get a satisfactory
cold running/start up performance.
The HE section of my manual suggests 3.5 degrees BTC at 500 RPM and of
course the 18 Degrees at 3000 RPM.
These readings are all without the vacuum connected.
I picked that there was a problem with the timing light.

However to corrected I had to approach an Auto Electric shop and use
their distributor test bed.
This machine allows you to run the distributor and shows the timing of
the spark at various distributor speeds. This is why the manual gives
you the distributor speeds.
This was a time consuming job to get it reasonably within the specs.
I had to replace one spring with a lighter one and do a lot of
experimentation.
I can’t explain how it was so far out.
However the running of the engine was ample reward. Along with a host of
other tuning problems which I have now rectified the engine pulls
unbelievably well. Better than the few other ones I have driven.

Incidently the HE figures my manual lists are as follows:

Engine Speed Degrees (Deacelerating with vacuum off)
6,200 20 - 24
4,000 18 - 22
2000 12 - 16
900 nil

Regards Geof

Interesting..  Did you happen to make note of the springs you ended up

using? By this I mean a part #, or some ID reference. Were the weights
in your distributor stamped with an ID, or weight reference so that we
might be able to extrapolate a bit further and see if perhaps there were
multiple advance weights put in place? Then we could say that if you
have weights “Such n Such”, use springs “So n So”… Just a thought…

Must be nice to have access to a dist. bench..    Oooo.. I know..  I'll>send it to you, and you'll do it for me.. ;)

r.gallivan wrote:

“Geof. Mead” wrote:

Mackie, Tom (Fire Hall 1) wrote:
However to corrected I had to approach an Auto Electric shop and use
their distributor test bed.
This machine allows you to run the distributor and shows the timing of
the spark at various distributor speeds. This is why the manual gives
you the distributor speeds.
This was a time consuming job to get it reasonably within the specs.
I had to replace one spring with a lighter one and do a lot of
experimentation.

Does this spring have some kind of part # ? What about the larger spring, did you
see one that could be used to replace it ?

What year car are we talking about here ?

Thanks.

Bob 84 XJ-S H.E.

I can’t explain how it was so far out.
However the running of the engine was ample reward. Along with a host of
other tuning problems which I have now rectified the engine pulls
unbelievably well. Better than the few other ones I have driven.

Incidently the HE figures my manual lists are as follows:

Engine Speed Degrees (Deacelerating with vacuum off)
6,200 20 - 24
4,000 18 - 22
2000 12 - 16
900 nil

Regards Geof

Hi R.

My XJS is an 85 model.

No the springs and other components do not seem to be available
commercially. The other alternative was to buy a complete new
distributor at an incredible price.

The spring I used was from a Vauxhall and was supplied by the auto
shop.

For normal running my manual recommends the timing (with the vacuum
disconnected) to be 18 Degrees at 3,000 RPM and between 1.5 ATDC to 3.5
BTC at 500 RPM.
If you can achieve this with your timing light I would think the vehicle
will drive close to spec for normal usage.
Before I repaired mine it was at about 10 Degrees ATC at idle which
causes a low vacuum which means the CPU sends more gas which makes it
run slower which causes less vacuum and so on. Includes sooty plugs.

Regards

Geof