[xj-s] Window Motor Help. Pictures Included!

XJ-S
1

I have 96 XJS. I was experiencing a common problem with
the passenger rear quarter glass motor on occasion. A
couple of taps with a long screwdriver and everything went
back to normal.

I decided to take it apart yesterday and I don’t think I
found good news, but I’m not a motor expert so I need some
feedback.

As you can see in the first two pictures, the commutator
has a definitive area where it has been rubbed down. The
magnets have been making direct contact with the
commutator and I believe that is the source of my
problems. I don’t think there’s a way to prevent this
from happening on my motor.

The third photo shows a clean motor housing. I didn’t do
anything to it, this was the condition it was in when I
opened it up.

The rest of the photos shows what everything looked like
after I cleaned it up with a wire brush. I lined
everything up with some silicone paste and it’s back in
the car now.

The question is did I fix anything?

I did flip the magnets around so that the worn areas are
now at the other end of the housing, opposite of where the
commutator shows contact. That should at least reset the
inevitable wearing down again, no?

http://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1463258409--
1996 XJS 2+2 Convertible with 4.0L AJ16
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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2

In reply to a message from Veekay sent Sun 15 May 2016:

HI, I don’t have a convertible, so my thoughts here are based
solely on your photos.The wear on your ARMATURE suggests that when
the window reaches the end of its travel, the armature is shifting
sideways as it comes to a stop. Thus jamming.You need to look at
the motor endplates or the housings for the bushings for any sign
of being loose.If the bushings at each end of the motor were worn
you would see a wear pattern all the way around, not just one
spot. Your commutator, on which the brushes make contact, look
fine, as do the brushes, IMHO. The only way you might have ‘‘Fixed
something’’ is if you had a loose end plate, and you’ve tightened
it up so it can’t shift sideways. I don’t quite understand what
you ‘‘Lined up with silicone paste’’ BTW?? Dave.–
The original message included these comments:

As you can see in the first two pictures, the commutator
has a definitive area where it has been rubbed down. The
magnets have been making direct contact with the
commutator and I believe that is the source of my
problems. I don’t think there’s a way to prevent this
from happening on my motor.
The question is did I fix anything?

–
Dave the Limey. 1988 XJS-C. 1960 Chevrolet Apache.
Greenville, Pa., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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3

As you can see in the first two pictures, the commutator
has a definitive area where it has been rubbed down.

OK, the first problem is that you’re using terminology incorrectly. The
“commutator” is the slotted copper thing that the brushes run against. The
clearly ground-off area is in the rotor core itself.

The
magnets have been making direct contact with the
commutator and I believe that is the source of my
problems. I don’t think there’s a way to prevent this
from happening on my motor.

The odd part is that it’s only happening on one particular area of the rotor
core, not all the way around. It makes me wonder if this isn’t a balancing job
that was done on the rotor, although I’ve never seen one that was done this
badly.

In general, the only way the magnets can come in contact with the rotor are
A) the magnets have come loose within the housing; B) the housing itself
isn’t secured properly; or C) the bearings holding the rotor in place have
come adrift. In all three cases, though, I’d expect the damage to go all the
way around the rotor, not be located in one spot.

If it really had this much wear, I’d expect the magnets to be broken into a
zillion pieces. They aren’t as tough as the rotor core. I really think those are
balance grind marks.

On one model of Delco window motor, the case is notorious for coming
loose; the threads the screws thread into get stripped out, and the case
cocks sideways and jams the rotor. The solution there is to drill the holes
clean through and assemble the motor with longer screws with nuts on the
back side. But I don’t think your motor is the type that normally suffers that
problem.

The question is did I fix anything?

Don’t think so.

I did flip the magnets around so that the worn areas are
now at the other end of the housing, opposite of where the
commutator shows contact. That should at least reset the
inevitable wearing down again, no?

It might run the opposite direction of the way it did before, but if so you can
fix that by just swapping wires around on the switch.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 15 May 2016 at 6:42, Veekay wrote:

4

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Sun 15 May 2016:

Thank yo both, this is helpful.

I suspect the bearing at the end of the housing is loose.
The spindle seemed easy to move around once I put the
brushes back on.

The magnets definitely showed a little bit of wear, so for
one reason or another, that core is running up a bit.

Is there any way to service the bearing? I didn’t think I
could get any tool that deep in the casing with any kind
of precision or control.–
1996 XJS 2+2 Convertible with 4.0L AJ16
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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5

In reply to a message from Veekay sent Sun 15 May 2016:

It’s hard to say what the cure is,just looking at photos, but I’ve
had good results with red Loctite and JB Weld. Kirbert would
probably have a better idea than I would!
Dave.–
The original message included these comments:

I suspect the bearing at the end of the housing is loose.
The spindle seemed easy to move around once I put the
brushes back on.
Is there any way to service the bearing? I didn’t think I
could get any tool that deep in the casing with any kind
of precision or control.

–
Dave the Limey. 1988 XJS-C. 1960 Chevrolet Apache.
Greenville, Pa., United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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6

Is there any way to service the bearing?

First off: Is the problem that the bearing itself is worn, or that it’s loose in the
housing?

I’ve never had much luck servicing such bearings. Since this is likely either a
Delco or Bosch window motor, you might be better advised to just drop by
your friendly neighborhood junkyard and try to find a replacement. Lots of
European automobiles probably use the same Bosch motor, and lots of
American cars use the same Delco motor.

If the problem is that the bearing has come loose and is wandering around,
you could take the attitude that you have nothing to lose and drill 3 holes
surrounding the bearing and put screws in them and see if you can lock that
bearing down.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 15 May 2016 at 14:39, Veekay wrote:

7

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Mon 16 May 2016:

Thanks again for the response. I suspect that it is the
bearing.

A search on the part reveals that the motor is unique to
the facelift Jags and Aston Martin. (damn) However I’ll
be damned if there are tons of Bosch motors that don’t look
identical!

Has anyone had any luck figuring out how to compare window
motors. I’ve spent time on Bosch’s website and managed to
find out that they stopped making it in 2013 and offer no
suggestions for an interchange. They do state that there
are no parts available.

I can’t believe that there isn’t a direct swap out. How di
I find out? I don’t care about the harness, I can swap
that out easily.

Bosch Part Number is FPE 12V 0 130 821 320
There is also a Brose Part 113 177-XXX (with 570 below the
x’s)–
1996 XJS 2+2 Convertible with 4.0L AJ16
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8

A search on the part reveals that the motor is unique to
the facelift Jags and Aston Martin. (damn) However I’ll
be damned if there are tons of Bosch motors that don’t look
identical!

Contrary to popular belief, they don’t reinvent the wheel for our Jaguars! The
difference in part numbers is probably something stupid like the lever on the
regulator or something.

Has anyone had any luck figuring out how to compare window
motors.

Not without having samples in hand, no. And looking at photos online never
works because, more often than not, vendors take ONE photo of a motor
and use it for ALL the different models they offer.

I can’t believe that there isn’t a direct swap out. How di
I find out?

Junkyard, tools in hand, gettin’ greasy. Are we having fun yet?

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 16 May 2016 at 6:32, Veekay wrote:

9

In reply to a message from Kirbert sent Sun 15 May 2016:

I had posted previously about how I found the adjuster
screw on the housing that presses against the end of the
shaft. It was too loose causing my gear to jump. could be
worth looking at to see if the shaft is too loose and not
running straight.–
The original message included these comments:

has a definitive area where it has been rubbed down.

–
scrimbo
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10

In reply to a message from Veekay sent Sun 15 May 2016:

Another idea, I took the guts out of an American Delco A1
Cardone 42-126 motor( about 45 bucks) from local parts shop
and put them in my motor I used the housing, armature,
brushes and brush holder, had to clip a small piece of
plastic from brush holder and made a new motor out of it.
They might be similar though my car is older.–
scrimbo
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11

Another idea, I took the guts out of an American Delco A1
Cardone 42-126 motor( about 45 bucks) from local parts shop
and put them in my motor I used the housing, armature,
brushes and brush holder, had to clip a small piece of
plastic from brush holder and made a new motor out of it.
They might be similar though my car is older.

Your car is evidently old enough to have Delco window motors. The OP’s
car has Bosch window motors – but otherwise, that’s exactly the kind of thing
I’ve been suggesting! Find a window motor in a junkyard that’s 90% similar
and swap parts until you have a working motor.

– Kirbert

// please trim quoted text to context onlyOn 16 May 2016 at 14:47, scrimbo wrote: