My antilock brakes
brake lights on?
Ordered some new
pads and rotors get
them tomorrow.
Hopefully fixing
this too?? Any
thoughts or
pointers? Thanks–
1993 XJ6
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In reply to a message from 30more sent Mon 7 Mar 2011:
Is the red brake light going on as well when you hit the
brakes? Be sure to get new sensors as well.–
mrtalkradio
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In reply to a message from mrtalkradio sent Mon 7 Mar 2011:
Yes it fashes for a
second. Do you think
I need to replace
the back drums?–
1993 XJ6
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In reply to a message from 30more sent Mon 7 Mar 2011:
Your car has rotors on the back [not drums] replacing the pads
and rotors will not fix your non working ABS system, you will need
to locate the ABS sensors located behind the rotor and clean the
surface so you will know they are clean before performing any
further test on them. Someone on the forum will know how many
sensors you have and on which wheels. John–
John. Walsh. Purrrrr 89 vdp
bowmanville ontario, Canada
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In reply to a message from 30more sent Mon 7 Mar 2011:
What exact light(s) are coming on and when?–
Groove
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In reply to a message from Grooveman sent Tue 8 Mar 2011:
Well my antilock
brake light come on
after about one
minute or two after
i start my car and
the red brake light
comes on when I hit
the brakes for a
second and go’s
off.
Thanks for the help!
Joe Adams–
1993 XJ6
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In reply to a message from 30more sent Tue 8 Mar 2011:
Looks like you might be facing a two different issues.
1st, the ABS light SHOULD go on when you first start the
car. It’s on until the ABS pump re-pressurizes the
accumulator. (Black ball under the hood, right side of the
car near the firewall)
It is possible the accumulator is failing, there are good
procedures for testing the accumulator in the archives.
Replacement is an off the shelf GM part, under $150 if needed.
The brake warning light coming on when you apply the brakes
is probably a different issue.
Could be as simple as low brake fluid.
More likely, one of the brake pad wear sensors is either
accurately detecting excessive wear in the pads, or there’s
a problem with the brake pad wear sensor circuit.
The wear circuit is a simple loop of wire that continues
into to wear sensor. Any open in the loop, or short to
ground will trigger the brake warning lamp. As the pads
wear to the warning limit, the loop is exposed and touches
the rotor when the brakes are applied. Additional wear will
abrade the wire loop through in the sensor causing an open
in the circuit.
A visual inspection of the wear sensors, their wiring and
the pads is probably in order.
If memory serves, only the left front and right rear brakes
have the sensors.
If, the brake warning light comes on when you 1st apply the
brakes, followed by the ABS pump running and then the light
extinguishing, then its probably the aforementioned pressure
accumulator.–
The original message included these comments:
Well my antilock
brake light come on
after about one
minute or two after
I start my car and
the red brake light
comes on when I hit
the brakes for a
second and go’s
off.
–
91 XJ6, 93 Sov, 97 Sov – Driveway’s crowded!
Tampa Fl, United States
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In reply to a message from 30more sent Tue 8 Mar 2011:
Following on from Win’s response, the next time the ‘BRAKE’
warning light comes on, press the VCM button. That will
display either ‘PAD’ or ‘FAIL’ on the LCD window on the dash.
If you see ‘PAD’, that indicates a pad wear system warning.
As Win said, either a genuine worn brake pad (left front or
right rear brakes only on a '90 + car) or a break in the
wire loop (open circuit) or a short to ground by one of the
pad wear sensor wires.
If you see ‘FAIL’, that indicates either or both low boost
pressure in the Teves accumulator sphere or low brake fluid
in the reservoir. In either of those ‘FAIL’ events, you will
also get the ‘ABS’ warning light although there are plenty
of other reasons also when that light will re-appear after
you start the engine and drive the car a short distance.
Report back.–
The original message included these comments:
Well my antilock
brake light come on
after about one
minute or two after
I start my car and
the red brake light
comes on when I hit
the brakes for a
second and go’s
off.
–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Tue 8 Mar 2011:
I did get a Fail…
when pushing the VCM
the second my red
brake light comes
on. I was thinking
it is time to change
my rotors and brakes
all around the car
but now I’m thinking
i got something else
going on. Do I still
need to change my
rotors and brakes?
I get a little bit
of squealing at
stops.
Thanks for the help
with all this!–
1993 XJ6
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In reply to a message from 30more sent Tue 8 Mar 2011:
Joe,
On the XJ40, you have to separate the functions of the ABS
and the brake boost from the ‘basic’ brake operation
involving pads and rotors.
If the pads or rotors are worn below minimum limits, by all
means replace them. The minimum thickness’s are :-
Front rotor = 27mm, front pads = 4mm
Rear rotor = 8.8mm, rear pads = 3mm
To test the efficiency of your Teves brake boost system
compare your car’s performance with what I consider to be
the norm :-
Teves Brake Boost / ABS pump performance
Typically, when my car has been sitting unused so that any
residual pressure in the accumulator has long since
dissipated, on turning on the ignition (without starting the
engine), the pump motor runs, the ABS light extinguishes
after 32 seconds, the ‘BRAKE’ light
extinguishes after 35 seconds and the pump stops after 42
seconds.
With the ignition still on, the pump will re-start on the
second application of the brake and run for 3 seconds to
recharge the accumulator.
Then, with the ignition switched off, it usually takes
exactly 30 applications of the brake before the pedal �goes
hard’ when servo assistance is lost.
According to the Jaguar Service Manual, the (nominal)
pressure in the accumulator on a Teves equipped car at which
these events occur is something like this:-
You can also check the ABS system on a Teves equipped car
using the on-board ‘blink test’ - running out of characters,
so see what that involves in following post–
The original message included these comments:
I did get a Fail…
when pushing the VCM
the second my red
brake light comes
on. I was thinking
it is time to change
my rotors and brakes
all around the car
but now I’m thinking
I got something else
–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Wed 9 Mar 2011:
Joe,
Here’s the second part showing the Teves ABS on-board ‘blink
test’ :-
Ensure the ignition is �OFF�
Locate the PM4 diagnostic connector in the boot over the
rear wheel arch close to the ABS ECU.
Insert a jumper lead between the black (ground) lead and the
brown/pink lead
Turn the ignition key to position �II� and observe the
warning lamp
After six seconds, the blink sequence of the first code begins
Count the blink pulses and write down the resulting
two-digit number
After a 6.5 second pause, the next code begins and so on
until all the codes are read out and the warning light
remains off.
Remove the jump lead and turn the ignition off
The fault codes are grouped in batches of nine (although all
are not used)
� i.e. 11 to 19, 21 to 29, 31 to 39, � etc up to 71 to 79.
[The system will only identify one code from each batch on
one �scan� � the lowest numbered code in that batch. That
fault must be cleared and the ECU re-set (by driving the car
at a speed in excess of 19 mph) before the next fault code
in a batch can be read by repeating the above procedure]
So the first number of flashes (blinks) you see will
represent the �tens�, then a brief pause and then the second
number of flashes (blinks) represent the �units�.
e.g. �blink blink pause blink� = code 21
followed 6.5 seconds later by
e.g. �blink blink blink pause blink blink blink blink� =
code 34
There are something like 38 fault code numbers in the system
for a 1990 / �92 MY car - probably similar on a '93 / '94 car.
Post the resultant fault codes to the XJ40 Forum and someone
will translate the codes for you.–
The original message included these comments:
On the XJ40, you have to separate the functions of the ABS
and the brake boost from the ‘basic’ brake operation
You can also check the ABS system on a Teves equipped car
using the on-board ‘blink test’ - running out of characters,
so see what that involves in following post
–
Bryan N, '91 Sovereign 4.0 L, RHD
Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from 30more sent Tue 8 Mar 2011:
Change your rotors and pads in the front. As was posted in
this thread, there are 2 sensors, Left front drivers and
rear right passenger side. YES they need replacing. This
should be your first job. If you can, do the backs as well.
The ABS issue is as stated above. I too and going through
that now. I will change out the accumulator ball, and go
from there.–
The original message included these comments:
it is time to change
my rotors and brakes
all around the car
I get a little bit
of squealing at
stops.
–
mrtalkradio
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In reply to a message from mrtalkradio sent Wed 9 Mar 2011:
well I went to do my front brakes tonight and everything
look barely used. I got some parts to take back!!! save me
some money!! I am going to check the backs tomorrow. I still
have a squeaking going on when I apply the brakes and my
ant-lock lights on. so maybe it the back ones… i
hope,otherwise I need to troubleshoot that.will let you know
thanks,
Joe–
1993 XJ6
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