[xk] Door hinge repair info needed

XK
1

Since the repair of my 120 has, by no means had any kind of logical or linear progression, I am about to fix the second set of door hinges on my 120 FHC. Alas, I have already installed the fixed first set and am loath to remove them - SOooooooo, I am asking if any of you have the exact center point measurement for the hinge pin hole that often becomes elongated. I had it once, but since it’s about a year since I did the other set, I, of course, can’t find the template that Charles kindly made for me. I could ask him again, but since he was so accommodating the first time, I thought I’d ask the rest of you good folks instead, If nothing else, Charles might re-create his hinge/hole template, but that will take even mire time. Anyone have the exact measurement? My hinges are the roughly squared ones, not the entirely different tapered ones.

Thank, in advance.

Best regards, Brian
1953 XK120 FHC

2

In reply to a message from Brian Ternamian sent Thu 10 Mar 2016:

The FHC and DHC have the straight hinge boxes, where the
steel OTS has the tapered.
I remember when I did mine that the wear on the holes was
all on one side due to weight of the doors. The top was worn
toward the rear and the bottom was worn toward the front,
but I could see the unworn portion of the original holes. I
made 3/8’’ thick bushings and welded them centered over the
unworn portions of the holes.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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3

Thanks, Rob for your answer. Unfortunately, I had to pretty much destroy my hinge box holes top and bottom to get the hinge itself out. It’s such a fit within the box and any remnant at all of the hinge pin/bolt will deny your getting it out. Ergo my dilemma. I haven’t succeeded yet in getting the bottom hinge out so I can’t say that will be any different.

Someone must have a new(ish) or good hinge out and lying around. It beggars credulity otherwise. I will continue to try and get the lower hinge out and maybe, just maybe I’ll get more lucky.

Best regards, Brian
1953 XK120 FHC

4

In reply to a message from Brian Ternamian sent Fri 11 Mar 2016:

My method for getting them out was to spread the box a
little bit with a thin wedge, then get a metal saw blade in
there and cut the pin bolt both above and below the hinge
arm. Use a Sawzall if you have one.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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5

Rob and Brian

Thats the method I used on both the DHC and the Roadster.

Remember though, that the pivot bolt is hardened and will take a bit of
effort and a quality blade (blades) to do the top and bottom side.
It also doesn’t matter if you cut into the shoulder of the arm in the
process and it may help if you customize your blades with the grinder to
get the maximum angle and cut.
Get comfortable, it will take awhile.

Quite a while back, I talked to a fellow who “punched” his wedge (for
getting the blade clearance) through the outside surface of the wing.
Realizing he needed body work anyway, he cut a blade slot for his first
cut from the outside, He said it sped the process up immensely. He had
done one side as we stated but once the box was out he was able to weld
up the slit and dolly out the bumps! If you have to fix one slot then
why not Iwo?
Just a thought!

Regards,

Rick
writes:On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 11:32:39 -0800 “Rob Reilly” xk120us4@sbcglobal.net

In reply to a message from Brian Ternamian sent Fri 11 Mar 2016:

My method for getting them out was to spread the box a
little bit with a thin wedge, then get a metal saw blade in
there and cut the pin bolt both above and below the hinge
arm. Use a Sawzall if you have one.

XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
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http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php –

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6

In reply to a message from holland-rick@juno.com sent Fri 11 Mar 2016:

And for really severe restoration cases, people have removed
the entire front wing, at which point the hinge box is all
exposed and the bolt more easily removed. I got the
impression Brian was not at that point.
I recall spending about 4 hours on each of my 4 hinges,
breaking off the attachment bolts and sawing the hinge pins.–
XK120 FHC, Mark V saloon, XJ12L Series II, S-Type 3.0
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7

In reply to a message from Brian Ternamian sent Thu 10 Mar 2016:

This is how I modify the door hinges before putting them
back in the car. Welding one 5/16 nut and using one similar
nut for locking the bolt. The bolt is a hardened 5/16 UNF.
The bolt goes in from the bottom at the top hinge and from
the top at the lower hinge. From now on the bolt never start
rotating as the originals and will be easy to remove.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2rqodfk.jpg--
sk99
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8

Well, it’s been a couple of really nasty, dirty days that I’ve been trying to get the bottom hinge out box out. I finally did it, but don’t remember it being that hard to remove. I had to use all the bolt head destruction tools in my arsenal that would even remotely fit into the ridiculously tight areas. Yes, it would have been easier if I had removed the fender, or at least part of it, but I didn’t want to ruin any of the lines that might be required to make another one though I might have to replace the bottom part anyway.

In all this folks have opined how to remove the hinge pin and fix it and I appreciate all that. Though I never got any advice about how to remove the hinge boxes which is just as necessary. The lower one is particularly nasty to get to even trying to destroy all the bolts and just drift out the remnants.

Also I never got the exact measurement for the center point of the hinge pin/bolt. I guess after fixing them we all forget what the critical measurements are. I will be posting an email about how I finally fixed them though I don’t really know when that will be.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Best regards, Brian
1953 XK120 FHC

9

Brian,

More important than precise position of the hinge pins is that they be on
the same axis. To achieve this, bolt both hinge boxes to a straight piece
of heavy scrap metal. You can then choose what appears to be a good
position for the holes. Make sure the axis is parallel to the mounting
surface and that a straight rod will pass through both bearings you are
going to use.

Gene McGough
XK-150 FHC S834515DN
XJ6C II 1976----- Original Message -----
From: “Brian Ternamian” alphajag@att.net
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:23 PM

Well, it’s been a couple of really nasty, dirty days that I’ve been trying
to get the bottom hinge out box out. I finally did it, but don’t remember it
being that hard to remove. I had to use all the bolt head destruction tools
in my arsenal that would even remotely fit into the ridiculously tight
areas. Yes, it would have been easier if I had removed the fender, or at
least part of it, but I didn’t want to ruin any of the lines that might be
required to make another one though I might have to replace the bottom part
anyway.

In all this folks have opined how to remove the hinge pin and fix it and I
appreciate all that. Though I never got any advice about how to remove the
hinge boxes which is just as necessary. The lower one is particularly nasty
to get to even trying to destroy all the bolts and just drift out the
remnants.

Also I never got the exact measurement for the center point of the hinge
pin/bolt. I guess after fixing them we all forget what the critical
measurements are. I will be posting an email about how I finally fixed them
though I don’t really know when that will be.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Best regards, Brian
1953 XK120 FHC

10

In reply to a message from Brian Ternamian sent Sun 13 Mar 2016:

Brian,

Sorry you had to go through so much grief removing the hinge
boxes. Although this comes too late to help you, I looked
through the archives and found a post by Paul Gavaza
explaining a fairly nondestructive way to remove the lower
hinge arm and hinge box. Paul also provides some photos in
his photo album.

http://forums.jag-lovers.org/avsn.php?1708033p90

Hopefully, Paul’s method can help someone else facing a
hinge arm rusted to the hinge pin and/or hinge box removal.

In my situation, the hinge pins had never rusted to the
hinge arms. But after 60 years, the holes through the hinge
arms had become enlarged causing the doors to have play in
them. All I needed to do was unbolt the hinge arms from the
doors and then remove the hinge pins. Then I took the hinge
arms to my machinist who drilled the hinge arm holes to 3/8’’
and pressed in bronze oilite bushings with a 5/16’’ inside
diameter. So I was lucky in that I never had to deal with
removal of the hinge boxes.–
Mike Balch
Iowa, United States
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11

Brian,

Besides advising pin removal by sawing the rusted pin on both sides of
the arm, there has been a lot of discussion a while ago on the “box”
removal as well.

There were some of us advocating breaking the bolts off if it were
impossible to loose them after soaking. The hard part of this effort was
finding the right pair of 6 point wrenches needed to do it. You can’t
“play” with them till they are rounded!

But they will snap cleanly. (That’s what I did).

Unless completely destroyed, the egged hole can be fixed by welding
washers over the hole to correct the wear. It is not “super” critical
and has to render the boxes better than before you removed them.

Mine were so bad that I made boxes from flat stock using a bench vise,
and hammer. I "turned’ the separators from round stock, using a drill
press and mill file.

Build in enough “slop” to eliminate any chances of forcing the mounting
surfaces to flex as the door swings and latches. Regardless of how the
precise 2 boxes are on a test bed, it will near impossible to mount them
in the car with the door hanging on them with the same result. You need
the “slop”.!

Regards,

Rick

writes:On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:23:58 -0500 Brian Ternamian alphajag@att.net

Well, it’s been a couple of really nasty, dirty days that I’ve been
trying to get the bottom hinge out box out. I finally did it, but
don’t remember it being that hard to remove. I had to use all the
bolt head destruction tools in my arsenal that would even remotely
fit into the ridiculously tight areas. Yes, it would have been
easier if I had removed the fender, or at least part of it, but I
didn’t want to ruin any of the lines that might be required to make
another one though I might have to replace the bottom part anyway.

In all this folks have opined how to remove the hinge pin and fix it
and I appreciate all that. Though I never got any advice about how
to remove the hinge boxes which is just as necessary. The lower one
is particularly nasty to get to even trying to destroy all the bolts
and just drift out the remnants.

Also I never got the exact measurement for the center point of the
hinge pin/bolt. I guess after fixing them we all forget what the
critical measurements are. I will be posting an email about how I
finally fixed them though I don’t really know when that will be.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Best regards, Brian
1953 XK120 FHC

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12

Sometimes it is not good to rely solely on memory. Bearings are not yet in
consideration for the action I described in previous message.

Attached is a picture showing how I used a rod to demonstrate proper
alignment of the pivot holes. The same setup was used to exactly position
the washers which were welded in place to correct for the wear in the pivot
holes.
p://www.jag-lovers.org/v.htm?1457923635

To finish this part of the job, I used shoulder bolts with a big flat filed
on the side of the head which fitted against a piece of keystock wleded to
the above referenced washer to prevent rotation, yet allow removal of the
bolt.

Gene McGough
XK-150 FHC S834515DN
XJ6C II 1976----- Original Message -----
From: “Gene McGough” <@McGough_Gene1>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:48 PM

More important than precise position of the hinge pins is that they be on
the same axis. To achieve this, bolt both hinge boxes to a straight piece
of heavy scrap metal. You can then choose what appears to be a good
position for the holes. Make sure the axis is parallel to the mounting
surface and that a straight rod will pass through both bearings you are
going to use.

Gene McGough
XK-150 FHC S834515DN
XJ6C II 1976

----- Original Message -----
From: “Brian Ternamian” alphajag@att.net
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:23 PM

Well, it’s been a couple of really nasty, dirty days that I’ve been trying
to get the bottom hinge out box out. I finally did it, but don’t remember
it being that hard to remove. I had to use all the bolt head destruction
tools in my arsenal that would even remotely fit into the ridiculously
tight areas. Yes, it would have been easier if I had removed the fender,
or at least part of it, but I didn’t want to ruin any of the lines that
might be required to make another one though I might have to replace the
bottom part anyway.

In all this folks have opined how to remove the hinge pin and fix it and I
appreciate all that. Though I never got any advice about how to remove the
hinge boxes which is just as necessary. The lower one is particularly
nasty to get to even trying to destroy all the bolts and just drift out
the remnants.

Also I never got the exact measurement for the center point of the hinge
pin/bolt. I guess after fixing them we all forget what the critical
measurements are. I will be posting an email about how I finally fixed
them though I don’t really know when that will be.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Best regards, Brian
1953 XK120 FHC

13

Here is another “worked for me” method of hinge pin removal.

I welded a short bolt to the top of the hinge pin to allow use of a straight
wrench. A socket with extension requires two hands.

Then I heated the pin area with a MAPP-Oxygen mini torch and a Propane
torch. There is so much metal in the area that sucks up the heat that it
takes two to do the job. As you might guess, I don’t have an Oxy-Acetylene
setup.

Gene McGough
XK-150 FHC S834515DN
XJ6C II 1976----- Original Message -----
From: holland-rick@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:43 PM

Besides advising pin removal by sawing the rusted pin on both sides of
the arm, there has been a lot of discussion a while ago on the “box”
removal as well.

There were some of us advocating breaking the bolts off if it were
impossible to loose them after soaking. The hard part of this effort was
finding the right pair of 6 point wrenches needed to do it. You can’t
“play” with them till they are rounded!

But they will snap cleanly. (That’s what I did).

Unless completely destroyed, the egged hole can be fixed by welding
washers over the hole to correct the wear. It is not “super” critical
and has to render the boxes better than before you removed them.

Mine were so bad that I made boxes from flat stock using a bench vise,
and hammer. I "turned’ the separators from round stock, using a drill
press and mill file.

Build in enough “slop” to eliminate any chances of forcing the mounting
surfaces to flex as the door swings and latches. Regardless of how the
precise 2 boxes are on a test bed, it will near impossible to mount them
in the car with the door hanging on them with the same result. You need
the “slop”.!

Regards,

Rick

On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:23:58 -0500 Brian Ternamian alphajag@att.net
writes:

Well, it’s been a couple of really nasty, dirty days that I’ve been
trying to get the bottom hinge out box out. I finally did it, but
don’t remember it being that hard to remove. I had to use all the
bolt head destruction tools in my arsenal that would even remotely
fit into the ridiculously tight areas. Yes, it would have been
easier if I had removed the fender, or at least part of it, but I
didn’t want to ruin any of the lines that might be required to make
another one though I might have to replace the bottom part anyway.

In all this folks have opined how to remove the hinge pin and fix it
and I appreciate all that. Though I never got any advice about how
to remove the hinge boxes which is just as necessary. The lower one
is particularly nasty to get to even trying to destroy all the bolts
and just drift out the remnants.

Also I never got the exact measurement for the center point of the
hinge pin/bolt. I guess after fixing them we all forget what the
critical measurements are. I will be posting an email about how I
finally fixed them though I don’t really know when that will be.

Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Best regards, Brian
1953 XK120 FHC

14

Just finished removing the hinges. I used a “Blaze” sawzall blade, and was able to bend it enough to get clearance for the sawzall. It slipped right between the bracket and the hinge part.Now to drill out and install the bushing.