During my engine/clutch work in 2013, I repaired the clutch slave cylinder with with a kit from one of the usuals. While out driving yesterday, my clutch suddenly, without warning, failed to disengage (at first no pedal pressure, then only slight pressure and partial disengagement after pumping) and I had to be flat-bedded home. I haven’t really been down underneath the car yet, but there’s a pool of clutch fluid beneath the slave cylinder, the clutch reservoir is about half full and the fluid in the reservoir is almost black. It appears to me that the rebuild kit has failed. I searched the archives but couldn’t find any mention of substandard repair kits, but I seem to recall that this was discussed a couple of years ago on J-L. Does anyone remember a discussion of poor quality repair kits? If so, I don’t want to go down that road again because a sudden clutch failure ain’t no fun! Although when I overhauled my cylinder the bore appeared to be smooth, I’m inclined to send the cylinder off to White Post Restorations for a complete rebuild. WP guarantees their overhauls (brass resleeve and of course new rubber seals) for life. They’re not cheap (“a couple of hundred dollars”), but that may be a wiser choice than a new slave from the usuals, around $45, or another rebuild kit. I would appreciate feedback from those who are more experienced than I.
Hi Mark,
Your correct, Ray Livingston had a series of failures that he attributed IIRC to poor quality seals from China that he had purchased from one of the west coast suppliers. Do a search with his name and I’m sure you’ll find it.
Cheers,
LLynn
I think this is it.
Cheers,
LLynn
When I redid my brake and clutch systems I opted for all new masters and a new clutch slave for a couple of reasons:
-
I had a bad experience with a rebuilder frequently mentioned in the forums; a poor resleeving job.
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Peace of mind with new as opposed to refurbished.
3… The cost differential was not significant.
Thanks, Jerry and Lynn. That’s the thread that I was unable to find. I’ve decided to take my slave cylinder off and send it to White Post. They do very high end restorations on all sorts of high end cars (Duesenbergs, RR, you name it). One of their services is rebuilding clutch and brake cylinders. I spoke with them this morning and they confirmed that they give a life time guarantee with a three day turn around for $175. To me, it’s worth the piece of mind of not going through what I did yesterday when I’m 500 miles from home. As always, great advice and help from the forum members.
I have not yet tried it with the E-Type but on my other cars (2 TRs & a VW) I have driven w/o the clutch - in one case for a couple of hundred miles.
Starting from a dead stop is tricky and shifting once moving takes a light touch and just the right matching of engine speed and wheel speed - but in an emergency it can be done w/o harming anything.
Not a substitute for reliable parts of course, but a knack worth having should the need arise.
Yeah, I got stopped at a light on a busy 4 lane street. I shut the engine off and managed to get it into first. When the light changed I started it with first gear engaged and managed to get it into second at about 3000 rpm. I then drove about a half mile to a shopping center, stopped and called AAA. I still had 3.5 miles to home and a whole bunch of traffic and lights to contend with. It was worth the wait for the flat-bed.
Mark, just curious about a few things you mention. I am surprised your fluid is almost black after 4 years. Dark yes, but black? May fluid have caused the problem? And if it is black due to the slave cylinder seals breaking down, I find it hard to believe that dirt made it up to the reservoir. Was the fluid 4 years old? I try to change it every 2-3, but four should not have been a problem. And why is the reservoir half full? If the only problem was the slave, I would have thought you would have pumped it dry, or at least as low as the raised outlet pipe in the reservoir. I guess to some degree, my thoughts are do the master cylinder also.
Tom
Maybe not black, but the fluid was certainly dark as if it had rubber contamination. Compare the color in the clutch reservoir to that in the two brake reservoirs.
The fluid had been in since I put in a new clutch MC and rebuilt the slave. I guess that the reservoir was half full (I last checked the reservoir levels a couple of weeks ago) because of the fluid that leaked out with the failure. There is a pool of fluid, dark colored like in the reservoir, on the garage floor underneath the slave cylinder. When I get the car on stands, I’ll be able to check for leaks other than at the slave. My guess is pushing on the clutch pedal caused the slave seal to finally give up the ghost with no ability to put pressure on the clutch fork. The pedal went clear to the bulkhead. Although pumping on the pedal gave some pedal pressure, there wasn’t nearly enough to disengage the clutch and allow shifting.
Mark,
I have a Hye-Dra-Cyl stainless steel slave, and it’s been fine. I got stainless rear brakes and I have been really impressed. After years of service I replaced the seals and the bores were shiny and polished like new. Big issue over the long run is wear and corrosion on the bore of the cylinder, and either stainless cylinder or brass re-sleeving will fix that problem. Water corrosion with pitting is the most common thing I have seen.
All of my masters are currently White Post re-sleeves, and they are working fine. When the seals finally go the bores should be fine so cleaning and new seals should do the job. That’s the advantage of either of these solutions over a new slave (or master for that matter). Of course you can always buy new ones when the old ones wear out, but eventually they may not be so available. Maybe if you change fluid every 2 years like you are supposed to you may not get any corrosion.
In my experience black clutch fluid is not that unusual; for me it generally meant old master seals. As much clutch fluid as goes back and forth, it could be from the slave too, I guess. But I’d be re-sealing the master too at this point; mae it all new. When you get the seals, ask the vendor for the best English (or US) made set. Definitely don’t go for price!
Jerry
Thanks for the advice, Jerry. You always seem to know the answer. When I get the system torn down, I’ll have a good look at the MC; as you say new rubber is a cheap and easy thing to do since I will have to completely drain and flush the system anyway. (Other than getting to that *** cotter pin which holds the MC push rod to the clutch pedal. My back was barking at me for a week the last time I did it.) When I get ready to send the slave off to White Post, I’ll ask them what seals they use and see if they will sell me a kit for the MC. As you know, they guarantee their overhauls for life, so they must have a line on good quality stuff.
When I did mine (had the pedal box out) I used hitch pins instead of the cotter pins for easier removal next time. Been a couple of years and still seems secure.
Me too. Likewise with the 3.8 pedal box master forks.
Jerry
That’s brilliant. I wish I’d read that before I crippled myself fighting to get those cotter pins back in.
When my clutch slave cyl failed couple of years ago I replaced it with a whole new one from one of the usuals for under $50 since it was pitted pretty badly. It was not stainless steel though. Has been working well but hope I made the right decision since you are right that it is no fun when it fails or when changing out.
David
68 E-type FHC
Mark,
That comes from doing most of the work on the car for 43 years!
Jerry
If you follow the factory maintenance procedures I’d expect it to give long service.
John,
Neither the service manual nor owners manual of a 3.8 says anything about replacing the brake or clutch fluid every two years (that I have seen), so you have to go a bit beyond that if you are using DOT3 or DOT4. Change every two years to get the water out and both keep corrosion down and braking distances short.
Jerry
At the risk of raising another DOT 5 vs DOT 3-4, 5.1 discussion, I noticed that Jerry did not include DOT 5 in his recommendation. I would suggest that it also needs to be flushed every 2 years. With DOT 5 the moisture that gets into the system works it’s way to low spots and can be difficult to bleed out since it’s not absorbed by the fluid. The only thing that I have found that allows you to bleed it out is to release the lower fittings which is a royal PITA and sets you up for future leaks.
Cheers,
LLynn