Toofbthe E out today for its weekly exercise. Took it off
the optimate battery conditioner, reading fully charged.
Car started as usual first time about about 5 seconds of
churning. Drive about 10 miles and stopped for coffee with
my son. Re started car and drove another 10 miles. This
time would not re start. Justbanclick from the starter
solenoid. Inning pretty sure the battery was Ok I called
the breakdown service. Eric arrived, an old skool mechanic
with at least imperial hand tools in his van. He checked
battery voltage 12.6v. He checked battery voltage while I
activated the starter and he said it went down to 11
something volts which he said was OK. Turned lights on one
activated starter. Lights dimmed but just a click from
solenoid still. He felt the relay while I operated starter
and said he could feel the relay clicking. He then hit the
solenoid with a steel bar a couple of times. He said he
thought it was stuck contacts on solenoid. We gave the car
a bump start and she fired up straight away. I drove home
fine. When I shut the engine off in my garage and tried to
restart I got nothing but the click.
I shall check and clean all the contacts in the starter
circuit tonight. However, since the solenoid is clicking
once each time I operate the starter is itbreasonablento
assume the relay and ignition switch are operating OK?
Any suggestions gratefully accepted. If the starters at
fault I will probably just get the modern spear reduction
version. However given the awkwardness of starter removal
would like it to be something more simple
First time I have had a ââfail to proceedââ in the 2000
miles since she was recommissioned in 2010 since off road
since 1980âŠâ
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
If as you say, the solenoid clicks each time you try to
start, the switch and relay are ok. If you can put a
screwdriver or some such across the two big contacts on the
solenoid to make a temp connection ( with a bloody big
spark) the starter should turn the engine over. If it does,
the solenoid is your problem. If it doesnât then youâll need
to look at the starter motor. The other posibility is that
youâve lost the earth strap to the engine from the body but
not likely if engine runs fine after a bump start.
Good luck
Ianâ
The original message included these comments:
I shall check and clean all the contacts in the starter
circuit tonight. However, since the solenoid is clicking
once each time I operate the starter is itbreasonablento
assume the relay and ignition switch are operating OK?
Any suggestions gratefully accepted. If the starters at
fault I will probably just get the modern spear reduction
version. However given the awkwardness of starter removal
would like it to be something more simple
First time I have had a ââfail to proceedââ in the 2000
miles since she was recommissioned in 2010 since off road
since 1980âŠ
Chris,
Silly I know, but did you check the connections ?
I once had a cable holding on the alternator by a single copper thread. It worked every other time, or not.
Toofbthe E out today for its weekly exercise. Took it off
the optimate battery conditioner, reading fully charged.
Car started as usual first time about about 5 seconds of
churning. Drive about 10 miles and stopped for coffee with
my son. Re started car and drove another 10 miles. This
time would not re start. Justbanclick from the starter
solenoid. Inning pretty sure the battery was Ok I called
the breakdown service. Eric arrived, an old skool mechanic
with at least imperial hand tools in his van. He checked
battery voltage 12.6v. He checked battery voltage while I
activated the starter and he said it went down to 11
something volts which he said was OK. Turned lights on one
activated starter. Lights dimmed but just a click from
solenoid still. He felt the relay while I operated starter
and said he could feel the relay clicking. He then hit the
solenoid with a steel bar a couple of times. He said he
thought it was stuck contacts on solenoid. We gave the car
a bump start and she fired up straight away. I drove home
fine. When I shut the engine off in my garage and tried to
restart I got nothing but the click.
I shall check and clean all the contacts in the starter
circuit tonight. However, since the solenoid is clicking
once each time I operate the starter is itbreasonablento
assume the relay and ignition switch are operating OK?
Any suggestions gratefully accepted. If the starters at
fault I will probably just get the modern spear reduction
version. However given the awkwardness of starter removal
would like it to be something more simple
First time I have had a ââfail to proceedââ in the 2000
miles since she was recommissioned in 2010 since off road
since 1980âŠ
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
Chris,
Your guy did all the right things. You might check the output with a
meter at the solenoid connection going to the starter while cranking.
If it also reads 11V then the problem is at the starter. Cleaning the
connections would be a good start.
pauls 67ots
Toofbthe E out today for its weekly exercise. Took it off
the optimate battery conditioner, reading fully charged.
Car started as usual first time about about 5 seconds of
churning. Drive about 10 miles and stopped for coffee with
my son. Re started car and drove another 10 miles. This
time would not re start. Justbanclick from the starter
solenoid. Inning pretty sure the battery was Ok I called
the breakdown service. Eric arrived, an old skool mechanic
with at least imperial hand tools in his van. He checked
battery voltage 12.6v. He checked battery voltage while I
activated the starter and he said it went down to 11
something volts which he said was OK. Turned lights on one
activated starter. Lights dimmed but just a click from
solenoid still. He felt the relay while I operated starter
and said he could feel the relay clicking. He then hit the
solenoid with a steel bar a couple of times. He said he
thought it was stuck contacts on solenoid. We gave the car
a bump start and she fired up straight away. I drove home
fine. When I shut the engine off in my garage and tried to
restart I got nothing but the click.
I shall check and clean all the contacts in the starter
circuit tonight. However, since the solenoid is clicking
once each time I operate the starter is itbreasonablento
assume the relay and ignition switch are operating OK?
Any suggestions gratefully accepted. If the starters at
fault I will probably just get the modern spear reduction
version. However given the awkwardness of starter removal
would like it to be something more simple
First time I have had a ââfail to proceedââ in the 2000
miles since she was recommissioned in 2010 since off road
since 1980âŠ
<<<<<<<<<From: âdb7gtgrigioâ christophera@fastmail.com.au
Subject: [E-Type] Click, nothing. Click, nothing
In reply to a message from paul spurlock sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
My Jeep has a six cylinder engine and a starter of similar
architecture. it did something like that in a parking lot stranding
me. Cleaning the cablesd did nothing. I did not that on turning the
key to stsrt, all the lights on the dash went out. That indicated a
high current draw.
I remembered reading somewhere of a temporary fix. I hAVE A
Shileleagh in each of my cars. it was just right to give the
solenoid a couple of good whacks. Voila, it cranked right up.
In olden days, I would have rebuilt the starter. This time, I
replaced it with a rebuild. Neat unit by Mitsubishi. Works just
fine. It is do9ne from underside and I was grateful that it is a
permanent magnet gear reduction unit and much lighter than the old
critters I am used to.
Carl.â
The original message included these comments:
Your guy did all the right things. You might check the output with a
meter at the solenoid connection going to the starter while cranking.
If it also reads 11V then the problem is at the starter. Cleaning the
connections would be a good start.
â
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from cadjag sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
I too tried whacking it. No good. And rocking the car in
gear. No good. Will check voltage at solenoid connection
to starter but suspect an order to Cool Cat for a new
Gera reduction starter is imminent.
What puzzles me is that until yesterday there was never
any indication of a problem with the starter. It always
spun well and at constant speed.
Are starters one of those components that just fail
without any warning?â
The original message included these comments:
solenoid a couple of good whacks. Voila, it cranked right up.
â
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
I had the same symptoms last year. For me it was dirty/corroded
starer connections.â
Loyer 73 2+2
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
The clutch that drives the dog has had itsâ daysâŠremove
and replaceâŠâ
The original message included these comments:
Toofbthe E out today for its weekly exercise. Took it off
the optimate battery conditioner, reading fully charged.
Car started as usual first time about about 5 seconds of
churning. Drive about 10 miles and stopped for coffee with
my son. Re started car and drove another 10 miles. This
time would not re start. Justbanclick from the starter
â
Keith.P. Series2 Roadster
exmouth, United Kingdom
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
Sometime you get a few âwarning startsâ notice.
LLoyd
My driveway is long enough that you can appreciate the conflict between the desire for privacy and the terror of being completely lost .----- Original Message -----
From: âdb7gtgrigioâ christophera@fastmail.com.au
To: e-type@jag-lovers.org
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:19:03 PM
Subject: Re: [E-Type] Click, nothing. Click, nothing
Are starters one of those components that just fail
without any warning?
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
Chris; You need a new starter relay. On my car it is on the right
side of the front bulkhead or firewall. Joel.â
The original message included these comments:
Toofbthe E out today for its weekly exercise. Took it off
the optimate battery conditioner, reading fully charged.
â
49mgtc/mgbgt/jag e type 70 2+2
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from hutch3 sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
Hi Joel
thanks for the suggestion. Why do you think it is the
relay? When I turn ignition on I can hear/feel the relay
operating. Since the solenoid clicks does that not mean
that voltage is getting to the solenoid? I thought the
relay is just a switch operated by the ignition switch
that sends voltage to the solenoid?..
Perhaps you are suggesting that the relay is not operating
correctly and not sending enough voltage to the
solenoid???â
The original message included these comments:
Chris; You need a new starter relay. On my car it is on the right
side of the front bulkhead or firewall. Joel.
â
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
Chris:
Joe has an excellent point. A relay may click yet not make a
connection internally.
Jump 12v to the starter solenoid. If it cranks, it is the relay or
the wiore from the relay to the starter solenoid.
I think my Jeep did give me a warning and I failed to heed it.
As it has well over 200k, and no stasrter rerplacement til now, it
was a good guess. The rebuild cranks nicely.
Now, one might pull the stasrter and open the solenid and find
corroded burned contacts. That would be a reason for no crank.
I opened the Delco on my IHC years ago. It had a hot start issue.
I was not aware of that Delco feature, as my experince was mostly
Ford. I opened it;s solenoid and fod aneat plate that could be
rotsted 180 degrees and present anew contact surface. I fixed the
issue, but that is another story not very helpful here.
Carlâ
The original message included these comments:
thanks for the suggestion. Why do you think it is the
relay? When I turn ignition on I can hear/feel the relay
operating. Since the solenoid clicks does that not mean
that voltage is getting to the solenoid? I thought the
relay is just a switch operated by the ignition switch
that sends voltage to the solenoid?..
Perhaps you are suggesting that the relay is not operating
correctly and not sending enough voltage to the
â
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from cadjag sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
But note that previously it was said that both relay and
solenoid are clicking, thus the relay must be ok, if not no
noise from solenoid.
Ianâ
The original message included these comments:
Joe has an excellent point. A relay may click yet not make a
connection internally.
Jump 12v to the starter solenoid. If it cranks, it is the relay or
the wiore from the relay to the starter solenoid.
In reply to a message from riv944 sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:
Have now checked.
12.3v at the white/yellow wire into starter relay from
ing switch when ign on. Battery voltage at terminals is
12.48v. Relay clicks when ing turned on.
When starter operated white/red wire at relay to
solenoid shows 10.3v when starter switch operated . IS THS
TOO LOW??? Indicates that relay coil is energising and the
contacts are passing voltage but is it enough�??
At solenoid top terminal (input) 12.3v with ign off,
11.97v with ign on.
Zero volts at lower solenoid terminal (output)
irrespective of whether ign on or off.
With starter operated ONLY 0.6v at the bottom output
terminal of the solenoid.
Applied 12v direct voyage to the brass terminal on top
of starter (direct connection to solenoid output
terminal). Starter spins normally.
This all says to me that voltage is getting to the
solenoid. the solenoid is actuating But not enough voltage
is getting through the solenoid to spin the starter.
Starter spins fine when direct voltage applied.
Seems pretty clear the solenoid is faulty?
Is my diagnosis correct. I will happily buy a new gear
reduction starter if it is the starter/solenoid assy that
is at issue. I just want to be sure before going to all
the hassle of removing the starter assyâŠâ
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from riv944 sent Sat 30 Jun 2012:
Ian
I tried to short the two contacts at the solenoid with a
big spanner. Nothing. Not Evan a small spark. You will see
input, the white/red wire has voltage (but only 10.3 v not
nearer to 12v), and starter runs fine when direct 12v
applied. I did this with ign on and off and absolutely
nothingâŠfrom my other recent post the solenoid has power at the
The original message included these comments:
screwdriver or some such across the two big contacts on the
solenoid to make a temp connection ( with a bloody big
spark) the starter should turn the engine over. If it does,
the solenoid is your problem. If it doesnât then youâll need
â
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:
Chris,
So you say:
Solenoid clicks
starter spins when powered directly
Shorting the solenoid doesnt spin the starter
Either the batt-sol or sol-starter cable is high resistance,
most likely bad/corroded joint.â
Dave S3E,RR SS, BMWâ02,Tr4a,Elise, http://www.xketype.com
Georgetown, Penang, Malaysia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from David Lacey sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:
Iâd agree with Dave
Iâd take the two big wires off the solenoid having
disconected the battery and clean up all the contacts on the
cables and the two big screws on the solenoid. Then put them
all back and try again.
Ianâ
The original message included these comments:
Solenoid clicks
starter spins when powered directly
Shorting the solenoid doesnt spin the starter
Either the batt-sol or sol-starter cable is high resistance,
most likely bad/corroded joint.
In reply to a message from riv944 sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:
When you say ââthe 2 big wiresââ what do you mean? There is
a large gauge black wire direct from battery. This
connects to a bridge shaped bracket on the front of the
starter secured by the starter through bolts. From this
bracket there is
A) a shorter large gauge black cable that goes to the
upper solenoid terminal.
B) a twin Lucar connector block, with a larger diameter
black sheathed wire (I think this is the white/red supply
from the relay), and another smaller wire I donât know
what this is. Note this connector WOBBLES a bit does not
seem securely connected.
Then there is a copper rigid strap/bracket thing that
connects the lower solenoid terminal to the starter motor
body.
Which connectors do you think might be high resistance?
Since there is 12v at the upper solenoid terminal sounds
like it is the copper strap connecting the lower solenoid
terminal to starter that might be at fault.I had 0.6v at
that terminal when starter switch engaged. so, high
resistance at the terminal threads and through copper
strap???
None of this is easy to access
Thanks for all the helpful input will be delighted if I
can avoid removing starter.â
The original message included these comments:
Iâd take the two big wires off the solenoid having
disconected the battery and clean up all the contacts on the
cables and the two big screws on the solenoid. Then put them
â
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:
AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!
this is killing me!
There is 12v at the top solenoid terminal from the battery.
verified with test lamp.
I removed the copper strap between Solenoid lower terminal and
starter. Cleaned up the strap, cleaned up the screw terminals,
cleaned up the nuts, used copper ease and tightened everything up.
Starter spins when 12v applied to input terminal on stater case.
How come when I short out the upper and lower solenoid terminals I
get nothing? Not even a tint spark. Surely this is giving direct
12v feed to the starter and it should spin.
What on earth is going onâŠ???â
The original message included these comments:
Iâd take the two big wires off the solenoid having
disconected the battery and clean up all the contacts on the
cables and the two big screws on the solenoid. Then put them
â
Chris , 69 FHC , Ducati, Moto Guzzi , Aston DB7
Sydney, NSW, Australia
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
In reply to a message from db7gtgrigio sent Sun 1 Jul 2012:
Time to pull it outta there.
Ideas:
Disconnect the big lead at the fire wall. Disconnect the small leaD
at the relay. Logic: It is easier to make the connections top side
rather than under.
Weap a rope around the body of the starter so that a helper can
lift it out rather than try to lower it onto your chest or
thereabouts. Idea from XJ list post.
Dilemna:
Repalce woith gear redction unit. Or, rebuild?
Hint: The gear reduction un it will be much lighter and easier to
lower into place with the rope system.
Hint 2: Make the connections at the starter on the bench and to
the car topside.
The end is in sight!
Carlâ
Carl Hutchins 1983 Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and 1994 Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
âPosted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]â
