[E-Type] Clutch 9.5" vs 10"


(Asch13) #1

I am in the process of refurbishing my ‘67 E-Type. I have a
problem in that the clutch was a 10’’ and the replacement I was sent
is a 9.5’’. They use different alignment pins and mounting bolt
size. My engine was refrubished by a local mechanic including the
flywheel with the 10’’ alignment pins reinstalled. Questions:

  1. Does anyone know of anyone that has a 10’ replacement clutch for
    a 4.2 engine? (since I have the alignment pins installed and the
    bolts for a 10’’ clutch this seems like the easiest option)
  2. If I must convert to a 9.5’’ clutchL: a) do I have to have the
    alignment pins for a 9.5’’ clutch installed? b) Do the alignment
    pins need to be machine pressed into place or is it possible to set
    them with a hammer? c) must I remover the 10’’ alignement pins or
    could I just ‘notch’ the 9.5’’ pressure plate housing?
  1. XK’x offers a 10’’ clutch for a 3.8 engine; Why will this not fit
    on a 4.2 engine? (their specs seems to show the exact same bolt
    and alignment pattern as what I removed)
    Thanks for any technical help here.–
    Asch13
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(Nick Saltarelli) #2

In reply to a message from Asch13 sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

Since the 10’’ clutch is standard for the ‘67 it only makes
sense if you acquire the correct item to install. Maybe
list your new 9.5’’ clutch in the free classifieds or eBay
if the vendor won’t do an exchange. The later 3.8s were
also fitted with 10’’ clutches. Don’t know when the
transition happened.–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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(Nick Saltarelli) #3

In reply to a message from Asch13 sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

Since the 10’’ clutch is standard for the ‘67 it only makes
sense if you acquire the correct item to install. Maybe
list your new 9.5’’ clutch in the free classifieds or eBay
if the vendor won’t do an exchange. The later 3.8s were
also fitted with 10’’ clutches. Don’t know when the
transition happened.–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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(Eric) #4

In reply to a message from Asch13 sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

Jaguar was messing around with various suppliers and sizes in the
late 60s…10’’ B&B coil spring, Laycock, B&B 9.5 diaphragm. The
10’’ 3.8 unit listed by a supplier should be fine.

If you decide to change to the 9.5’’ unit, the attach bolts are 5/16
x 24. I just had a 3.8 flywheel drilled for that clutch, simply
because I happened to have a brand new one sitting on the parts
shelf. The machine shop removed the original dowels. I had the
new dowel holes for the smaller clutch drilled/tapped for 1/4’’
hardened bolts, which I’ll locktite in place and cut off their
heads. Not sure what the original dowel holes in the 4.2 flywheel
look like.

Keep in mind that the 9.5 B&B diaphragm clutch cover is thinner
than the old 10’’ coil spring style, so the throw out bearing is
different.

Finally, you might want to look at the current thread
titled ‘‘Engine Balance’’, which discusses balancing for a new
clutch, regardless of size/type

Regards–
Eric
DFW Texas, United States
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(Norman LUTZ) #5

In reply to a message from Asch13 sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

A 1967 E should be a 4.2 and all 4.2’s from 1964 had the 9.5’’
clutch as std.

The flywheels were normally dual drilled and it is possible that a
PO used the 3.8 10’’ clutch as a replacement.

The 3.8 clutch also requires a different release bearing.

The alignment pins are different sizes for the 2 clutches, they can
be removed using a pair of plyers.

After removing pins I normally drill thru with a 1/8 drill so that
they are easier to remove next time.–
The original message included these comments:

I am in the process of refurbishing my ‘67 E-Type. I have a
problem in that the clutch was a 10’’ and the replacement I was sent
is a 9.5’’. They use different alignment pins and mounting bolt
size. My engine was refrubished by a local mechanic including the
flywheel with the 10’’ alignment pins reinstalled. Questions:
2. If I must convert to a 9.5’’ clutchL: a) do I have to have the
alignment pins for a 9.5’’ clutch installed? b) Do the alignment


850225/679,1E21003,2W2001BW,JNAEY3AC100218,SAJNV4841KC156072
ROSANNA, Australia
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(PeterCrespin) #6

In reply to a message from Nick S. sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

The 10’’ clutch isn’t standard on any 4.2.

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

Since the 10’’ clutch is standard for the '67 it only makes
sense if you acquire the correct item to install. Maybe


1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC, 1R28009 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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(abowie) #7

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

My guess is that someone in the dark distant past replaced
your original flywheel with a 10’’ one that they had to hand.
There was a time when these cars were worth little, and the
cheapest repair solution was the one employed.
Expediency suggests your best course to be to fit another 10’’
clutch, especially as the 3.8 flywheel has a different number
of teeth on the ring gear.–
Andrew B, 1967 S1.5 FHC, 1964 S1 OTS www.projectetype.com
Adelaide, Australia
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(Eric) #8

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

My service manual states, in part… ‘‘From the introduction of the
4.2 Litre ‘E’ Type to chassis 7E.13500/1…a Laycock clutch…is
fitted’’. The subsequent data section states that it is a 10’’
clutch. The 9.5’ Borg and Beck replaced it in about July 1968
according to Haddock/Porter. The 10’’ coil spring B&B was
apparently unique to the 3.8.–
The original message included these comments:

The 10’’ clutch isn’t standard on any 4.2.


Eric
DFW Texas, United States
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(PeterCrespin) #9

In reply to a message from 64etype sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

Hmm, interesting. I thought the change to 9.5’’ coincided with the
change to the diaphragm clutch.

On checking Clausager’s book (who bases everything on factory
records) he says Feb 64 is when 3.8s got a Laycock diaphragm
clutch. That’s earlier than I thought and earlier than your source.
This clutch apparently carried over to the 4.2, with the Borg &
Beck arriving in July 67.

My 66 definitely was drilled for both sizes, however, and I heard
all early 4.2 were. If the change to 9.5’’ coincided with the swap
to B&B in July 67, why would any car before that be drilled for the
smaller size?

You live and learn, thanks.

Pete–
The original message included these comments:

My service manual states, in part… ''From the introduction of the
4.2 Litre ‘E’ Type to chassis 7E.13500/1…a Laycock clutch…is


1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC, 1R28009 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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(Eric) #10

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

For some reason my copy of the 3.8 Service manual also has an
insert for the 4.2 clutches. The quote above was from that
insert. The basic 3.8 clutch section of the manual refers to the
coil spring B&B for the earlier 3.8, and the Laycock for ‘‘later
cars’’ (no dates). Skilleter’s book says the Laycock diaphragm unit
was introduced on the 3.8 in March 1964 (RA 5801) and that the dual
pattern flywheels were introduced on that same s/n.–
Eric
DFW Texas, United States
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(PeterCrespin) #11

In reply to a message from 64etype sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

But if the early diaphragm and the coil spring clutch were
both 10’’ why would there need to be two sets of holes on
different diameters???

Pete–
1E75339 66 D, 885958 62 FHC,1R27190 70 FHC, 1R28009 70 FHC
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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(Eric) #12

In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

Good sleuth question. But I’d guess it had to do with a business
decision to give them the option of switching vendors for a
diaphragm clutch. The B&B was likely on the horizon…–
Eric
DFW Texas, United States
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(Nick Saltarelli) #13

In reply to a message from 64etype sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

I took my information from the factory service manuals which
provide data for the original 3.8 cars as default and data on a
somewhat exception basis for subsequent models. The Haynes manual
attempts to provide a reckoning and it says (on p. 112) that early
3.8 E-type models were fitted with the 9.84-9.87’’ Borg and Beck
single dry plate clutch while later 3.8 and early 4.2 models had
the 10’’ diaphragm spring Laycock clutch. The B&B diaphragm spring
clutches were fitted to later 4.2 models. No idea what the cutoffs
were.–
Nick Saltarelli '68 Cdn mkt E-type S1� OTS, '54 XK120SE OTS
Niagara, Ontario, Canada
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(garr) #14

In reply to a message from Nick S. sent Tue 24 Sep 2013:

Yes , There were 3 different clutches as Nick says. To remove the
dowel locating pins, I put a die on these and cut a thread. Then I
added washers under a nut and by adding more washers, I pulled out
the larger 2 alignment dowels used on the 10 ‘’ B&B . I ordered the
1/4’’ dowels (three of them) and tapped them in with a hammer but I
could have used a vise to simply press these in. I used a bit of wd
40 for lube. I converted to the 9.5’’ diaphram clutch for ease of
operation since the 10’’ BB was very hard to depress. The AP
Driveline kit came with the thicker throw out bearing and clips but
I had to buy the alignment tool seperately.–
gar E
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(garr) #15

In reply to a message from garr sent Fri 27 Sep 2013:

I’m assuming the flywheel is still on the crank and not yet
resurfaced since the dowels are still in place. Unless the surface
is in good condition, it is recommended that it be resurfaced to
prevent rapid clutch wear and smooth operation. It was also
recommended to me to balance the flywheel , which I had done here
near Toronto.
the XK’s and carried over to the 1961 E type. In late 64 the syncro
tranny was introduced and with a diaphram clutch. One of the old
time mechanics I know from NJ told me that there was alot of
trouble with these and he was busy changing them all. However he is
unclear on the details. I believe the first diaphram clutch may
have been the 10’’ Laycock and there are many people who pay dearly
for these ,however the next clutch was the 9.5 diaphram , not sure
who originally made it but like I said , I got one from AP
Driveline and it seems the standard today. At some point in the
history the flywheel and starter were changed, not sure when, but
the latter flywheel has 133 teeth. In the early days the coil
spring clutch could be ordered with softer springs , but today only
the hardest(racing) springs are available making it a bit of a work
out in heavy traffic.From my research I believe the 10’’ coil spring clutch was used on

gar E
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(Mitchell Andrus) #16

'66 4.2.
Reopening on old thread, I’m dealing with the same stuff here. It’s been a few years, perhaps there’s new info?

Photos show the different parts side by side. I’ve got a flywheel drilled for both 9.5" and 10" pressure plates, 133 tooth. My old 10 pressure plate is the diaphragm type.

I’ve got a new 9.5 pressure plate and disc and plan to install them, I just need to get hardened 5/16"/24 and 1/4" pins.

I find it interesting that the ring gear is cut into the flywheel. I don’t remember if this was so on my '64 3.8.



(peter balls) #17

Not correct Peter, I have worked on early 4.2 E Types fitted with a Laycock 10" diaphragm with the same
bolt pattern as a Borg/Beck 10" spring. The early 4.2 parts book even listed a competition version.
I recall the change to a 9 1/2 diaphragm around 66/67.
Peter B.


(Larry velk) #18


My AP diaphram clutch cover hit the bell housing in the places indicated. “Moss” style bell, flywheel from Idaho, machined and exchanged my original (strangely, seems to be OK). Fortunately found before it went in the car.


(Puddinhead) #19

Asch, Does your FW have engine number stamped on it ? My '66 FHC
FW has it’s engine number (sitting on floor now, I installed new alloy FW).
No engine number, then it’s not factory original.

Patrick
'66 FHC


(Mitchell Andrus) #20

Mine does, it’s a match!!! 9537, not original to the car, but close.

So… was it drilled for both 9.5" and 10". Can I assume the 10" press plate is the original?