[E-Type] Installing 123-Distributor

E-Type
1

Hi guys,
It’s aeen a while, hopelfully you are all doing OK.
I reckoned you all might want to hear some tricks on
installing the 123-ignition system while the memory is
still fresh.
While the install/swap itself is relatively
straightforward, here are some noteworthy things:
a. The set-up instructions revolve (quite literally)
around cylinder #1, but, as is probably common knowledge,
timing of our beloved ones is set on #6 (the
foremost/frontal cylinder). Those 123-instructions,
especially dealing with connecting leads by cylinder
numbers, were therefore not a big help.
b. The key for me was to (eventually) get back to a few
basics: you need access to the timing mark; this should be
set at or near the 10 degree mark by rotating the engine;
the rotor arm revolves counter-clockwise; if the timing
mark comes up, the rotor arm should point to the #6 spark
plug lead; counter clock wise from this #6 lead the other
plug leads are numbered 2,4,1,5,3 (6). This is easy to
remember: 15 is too young, 36 too old, 24 just right (wish
I made that one up).
c. The 123-distributor takes some confincing to mate with
the drive - it turned out that there’s a slight machining
error on the 123-drive (my copy only?), that prevents it
to slot in one of the two possible positions - you have to
turn it 180 deg. to correct this. It is possibly that by
doing so, your timing is also 180 deg. off. If the setup
at b. reveals this, you can to this by re-placing the
leads (taking care of the mirror image you have to
create).
d. Another difficuly was to make the clamp to catch. It
turns out that the diameter of the 123 is slightly
different from the original 22D. You migth have to loosen
the vertical locknut of the clamp, reposition it by
inserting the 123, remove the 123 carefully and fasten the
locknut in the new position.

The result is BTW very promising - the engine runs
beautifully, but I didn’t test drive it yet.

Regards,
Frans
'67 OTS Series 1, open head lights.–
Frans S. - '67 S1� OTS 4.2L Maserati 3200GTA
Amsterdam, Netherlands
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1 Like
2

In reply to a message from frantic sent Sun 12 Jul 2015:

Lucky for you, a similar machining error must be present in
your distributor drive…otherwise the 123 wouldn’t install
in either of the two possible positions. :slight_smile:

Seriously, a nice feature of the XK dizzys throughout the
series is that they only fit one way. The drive cleats are
slightly offset from the centerline.–
The original message included these comments:

c. The 123-distributor takes some confincing to mate with
the drive - it turned out that there’s a slight machining
error on the 123-drive (my copy only?), that prevents it
to slot in one of the two possible positions - you have to
turn it 180 deg. to correct this. It is possibly that by

–
Bob Wilkinson, 73 XJ6
Saint Louis, MO, United States
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3

In reply to a message from Robert Wilkinson sent Sun 12 Jul 2015:

This is hard to see (at least for me) and made installing
the drive gear difficult to get in correctly. The last time
I got it backwards so my rotor is backwards etc etc and I
hate it.–
The original message included these comments:

Seriously, a nice feature of the XK dizzys throughout the
series is that they only fit one way. The drive cleats are
slightly offset from the centerline.

–
Mike Moore 63 S1 OTS #878877
Morgan Hill, California, United States
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4

In reply to a message from frantic sent Sun 12 Jul 2015:

With a three-throw crankshaft with throws spaced 120 degrees
apart, a firing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 puts #1 at TDE one full
turn (360 degrees) around from #6. If you installed a
timing pointer from an XJ6 on the left side of the engine,
you would time off #3 or #4, using the same timing marks on
the vibration damper.–
The original message included these comments:

a. The set-up instructions revolve (quite literally)
around cylinder #1, but, as is probably common knowledge,
timing of our beloved ones is set on #6 (the
foremost/frontal cylinder). Those 123-instructions,
especially dealing with connecting leads by cylinder
numbers, were therefore not a big help.

–
Pete Peterson 70E(193K) XJ40s(88-270K,89-97K, 94-122K)
Severna Park, Maryland, United States
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5

In reply to a message from frantic sent Sun 12 Jul 2015:

Hi Frans, out of curiosity which advance curve did you
select? Notes useful thanks. Paul–
The original message included these comments:

Hi guys,
It’s aeen a while, hopelfully you are all doing OK.
I reckoned you all might want to hear some tricks on
installing the 123-ignition system while the memory is
still fresh.

–
Paul Breen
Sydney '62 E FHC, '72 ,XJ6 swb, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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6

In reply to a message from frantic sent Sun 12 Jul 2015:

I also have the 123 distributor for my 4.2 S1 1965,
(#10275). Its the Jag specific model. I set my initial
setting to position #2. Even with all new seals for the
distributor, ‘‘O’’ ring, cork), mine fit perfectly with the
correct dog offset. My engine, and for that matter the
entire car, has been painstakingly taken apart and put back
together (many times on some occasions). So the 123 was just
one of many new/upgraded parts. When I first started it
(also new gear drive starter) after 30 years, it fired
immediately with just the first touch to the starter button.
I was so startled I turned it off right away as I couldn’t
comprehend what was happening. Second go around, it settled
into a nice smooth tick over. I also used cylinder # 6
(front) as the timing mark to set the static timing (10
degrees BTDC), turned the dizzy until the green light came
on and away it went. I agree the hold down bolt is difficult
to access so after tightening that down, I used the clamp to
properly time it. All in all, I’m quite happy w/ the 123 as
it does add a modern piece of tech that hopefully will
perform as expected. So far, great.–
stephenc
winnipeg/manitoba, Canada
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7

In reply to a message from frantic sent Sun 12 Jul 2015:

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the plenty of interest in the 123-distributor
installation.

I just finished the first test drive of about 100 Km and -
as I just shared with my better half - the car has not
driven this well since probably 8 or ten years.
After countless hours of wandering through all
permutations in the mechanical solution space, it looks
like all hesitations, spluttering, holding back under
acceleration and many more creepy symptoms are a thing of
the past.
I must confess, the resulting deep feeling of relief is
more than anticipated - finally we will once more enjoy
motoring, the scenery and the select company of well-
moderated E-types.
@Bob Wilkinson:
‘‘Lucky for you, a similar machining error must be present
in your distributor drive…otherwise the 123 wouldn’t
install in either of the two possible positions. :slight_smile:
Seriously, a nice feature of the XK dizzys throughout the
series is that they only fit one way. The drive cleats are
slightly offset from the centerline.’’
Bob, thanks for this common sense note, which of course is
correct, and is maybe not common knowledge. Glad you
shared it.
My speedy conclusion that it might be a machining error
was partly due to a Haynes-manual remark, which warned of
the possibility of a 180 deg. off install. As follows
from your note, this in fact can never happen, not with
123, nor with the 22D Lucas.

@Pete Peterson:
Thanks for the addition, which might help our XJ6 brethren
even more.

@Paul Breen:
The advance curve is still on setting #1, the default.
There is the slightest of hesitation before the engine
picks up (and then it really picks up).
I might be tempted to experiment a little with other
settings to eradicate this, but at the moment I’m very
happy as it is!

@stephenc:
Great to hear this re-incarnation story! I can only guess
the thrill you felt. Did you drive it already?
Mine is 1E15402 BTW, April 1967.

Epilogue -
Maybe much too soon to draw any definitive conclusions,
but the current absence of smoke, spluttering, misfires,
and severe hesitation makes one believe that a crucial
problem source has been removed.

I’ll keep you posted,
In the mean time, all the best for this summer,

Frans
PS Any Jag-lovers in Alaska - Fairbanks, Anchorage, Homer?
We’ll be there in a couple of weeks.–
Frans S. - '67 OTS S1, Open Headlights
Amsterdam, Netherlands
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8

In reply to a message from frantic sent Sat 18 Jul 2015:

Hi Frans, great to hear your 123 has been so successful! I
should be up and running with mine in 6-8 weeks. Keen to
swap notes. As I understand it the top end curves can be
pretty aggressive. Regards, Paul–
The original message included these comments:

@Paul Breen:
The advance curve is still on setting #1, the default.
There is the slightest of hesitation before the engine
picks up (and then it really picks up).
I might be tempted to experiment a little with other
settings to eradicate this, but at the moment I’m very
happy as it is!

–
Paul Breen
Sydney '62 E FHC, '72 ,XJ6 swb, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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9

In reply to a message from Breen60 sent Sat 18 Jul 2015:

Hi Paul,

Thank you, I wholeheartedely hope that you will have the
same experience. Are you working on a nut-and-bolt
restoration?

The originality is a little compromised of course - I
justified that by declaring this a temporary solution, so
that the original 22D can be restored - the swap back can
take years of course :wink:

BTW - I replaced the ‘original’ solid copper leads (with
Champion caps and screw-on acorn connectors) with the
Lumenition silicone fixed leads with sleeved connectors
(you need those for the 123-cap). The former were very
inconsistent when I measured resistance and continuity.
The Lumenitions are another originality breach, but for
now more than acceptable :wink:

I followed NGK’s instructions, which I found here:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/installa
tion.asp
Good luck with restoring this winter!

Regards,–
The original message included these comments:

Hi Frans, great to hear your 123 has been so successful! I
should be up and running with mine in 6-8 weeks. Keen to
swap notes. As I understand it the top end curves can be
pretty aggressive. Regards, Paul

–
Frans S. - '67 OTS S1, Open Headlights
Amsterdam, Netherlands
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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10

In reply to a message from frantic sent Sun 19 Jul 2015:

Hi Frans, mine’s more of a rolling restoration - although
been off the road almost one year. I plan on restoring my
original DM6 - just to keep. Understand, as you do some of
the high voltage kit is unreliable - so went modern as
well. Looking forward to some nice spring driving soon.
Best regards, Paul–
The original message included these comments:

Thank you, I wholeheartedely hope that you will have the
same experience. Are you working on a nut-and-bolt
restoration?
The originality is a little compromised of course - I
justified that by declaring this a temporary solution, so
BTW - I replaced the ‘original’ solid copper leads (with
Champion caps and screw-on acorn connectors) with the
Lumenition silicone fixed leads with sleeved connectors

–
Paul Breen
Sydney '62 E FHC, '72 ,XJ6 swb, Australia
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–

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11

I installed a 123 Distributor (bluetooth) today into a 4.2 S1. Engine starts very well and sounds very responsive.

The issues I had are as follows:

  1. The HT cables of the original points dissy terminated to the cap with “acorn” screw in holders. The 123 requires modern plug-in wires. I had some old HT wires and stripped the terminals from them and installed them to the original HT wires.
  2. The length of the HT wires is just a bit short for comfort and sits rather tight against the thermostat cover. Perhaps it would be a good idea to also get a new set of HT wires, or make up a set that has enough slack.
  3. It seems the android app still has a few bugs because I could not change the rev limit, nor the RPMs at which vacuum advance becomes active.

Otherwise it works well and provides 100% stable spark timing.

12

Were you trying to change the settings while the unit was powered/engine was running?

iirc the USB ones you can only reprogram if they are unpowered, but you can watch the values on the PC while the engine is running.

13

No, the manual states very clearly that engine can’t be running when making changes. I also tried on the bench before installing to the car. Same outcome of course.

Best regards

Philip

14

I believe that the 123 engine upper limit (8000 rpm) cannot be changed, it’s a factory limit, and it’s not necesary to do so. Just program your curve in between the limits of 0 and 8000 rpm. Follow the manual!

Cheers, Andrys

15

I have used a different model (USB interface rather than wireless, and 4 cylinder for Lotus Elan), but am inclined to believe the control would operate the same : the max RPM can be set, as curve values, which are programmed into the device flash memory I believe, but not while the engine is running. I have the 2 curve model, and they can be switched hot (I’ve checked). On mine there is a way to adjust timing values while the engine is running, which is via the “tuning” mode of the software that comes with it (very convenient on the rolling road for instance), from memory it consist of translating the whole advance curve up or down by 0.1° by toggling a key.

16

There are bugs in the Android app right now and 123Ignitions are working on fixing it. Already this morning there was an updated version available but that also had issues. They are clearly very serious about sorting it out.

I must say that tech support from 123 is very responsive and they really appreciated comments I made regarding errors in the manual.

That gives me a very warm feeling.

You’re right Nic, the Bluetooth model should work exactly the same.

Best regards

Philip

17

where do i buy one of these?..

18

Google 123 distributor and a supplier will pop up in your country (hopefully)

19

Just don’t try to turn it 8 grand.

:grimacing:

20

Pete,
Rimmer Bros in the UK has them for ~$100 less that anyone here. About $350 including shipping by DHL for The base model. Make sure you order the Jag specific model as they sell them for a number of marques. Mine arrived in a week.