George- I obviously missed that little “tidbit” as I was fixated with the /00! I can’t say for sure this is the original speedometer for this car- I can only vouch for it since 1982. Whatever- it’s been fixed up and calibrated for my rear gear ratio so it’s going in the car and will serve well.
This has been a very interesting thread. As far as I know, my speedometer is original. I had it overhauled this past winter by Nisongers and when they returned it, it looked like a brand new instrument and its former erratic behavior was fixed. However, in measuring its readings against GPS, it reads about 3-5 mph low, depending on the speed. I looked up my speedometer on the table listed by 69roadster (name?), SN6322 29, and see that it specifies 6.40X15 rubber (not going to get into the Tyre vs Tire debate 
). Could the discrepancy in indicated speed be due to the rotational differences between the cross plies my March '67 car was apparently delivered with and the radials (185R15 91H) I’m now running?
[quote=“mgordon, post:82, topic:122227”]
(not going to get into the Tyre vs Tire debate,[/quote]
I’ll stick with ‘Tars’ as that was what they were called where I grew up.
[quote=“mgordon, post:82, topic:122227”]
Could the discrepancy in indicated speed be due to the rotational differences,[/quote]
Did the Boys in the Bronx calibrate your unit from a number you provided (cable turns in 52’ 9.6") or based on the tpm shown on the face of the unit?
FWIW I had my speedometer adjusted by MoMa in New Mexico, and though my '64 speedometer must have been calibrated for Road Speed bias tires, it was perfect for the radials too. I did the TPM measurement and it came out exactly what the instrument face said to expect. MoMa said that’s how the instrument was calibrated, so they left it as-is. Now I find that it reads correctly within the accuracy of the gauge, compared with the GPS speedometer in my iPhone.
FWIW, the Pirelli 1973 tire guide says 6.40x15 bias tires turn 777 revolutions per mile. Tirerack says 185R15s turn 786 revs per mile. That’s about 1%, or 1 MPH lower at 100 MPH. that’s 1/2 MPH at 50. You can’t discern that difference on our speedometers.
Jerry
I don’t believe that they calibrated it at all; I didn’t ask them to. It was very slow to indicate the speed that the car was going and then when the car stopped, the needle would only drop down to about 20 mph indicated. Tapping on the glass would cause the needle to drop the rest of the way down to 0.
Jerry, I didn’t do any TPM calculations so I suspect, based on yours and the Pirelli guide that the unit is just off a few mph. As long as I know the rough error, it will suit my purposes and is not worth it to me to send it back for accurate calibration. Garmin or phone GPS will keep me within John Law’s tolerances (he says).
Hi What i’m getting at is that i think that the Cinturato is the only tyre that was manufactured in the early 60’s that you can still buy that is suited to a E-type.
The debate about weather it was offered by Jaguar does (disappointingly) point at the Cinturato not being a tyre that Jaguar actually offered. However in period you could have had Cinturato 185VR15 tyres fitted to your series 1 (and series 2 for that matter) e-type if you wanted the upgrade. I think no other suitable tyre made in the early 60’s that is suitable, be it crossply or radial is being made today.
I’m not sure I’ve fully grasped the discussion of the SP Sport Aquajet. are we saying that was available in 1967?
I remember vividly, a big part of the launch of the XJ6 in 1968, was it came standard with the latest and greatest DUNLOP AQUAJET tyres (Dunlop SP Sport), and indeed these new Aquajet tyres feature regularly in period brochures and adverts for the totally new model Aquajet.
But Jaguar Factory technical literature tells us quite unambiguously that the DUNLOP SP Sport tyre (Aquajet) was indeed introduced as standard original equipment on all E-types from Car No 1E1920/ 1E16099/ 1E21669/ 1E34847/ 1E51059/ 1E77705 onwards, which the JDHT advises to be as of October 1967 onwards.
The Service Bulletins also advise exact introduction point for the various Saloon models as well, but without checking, will undoubtedly be at this same late 1967 time.
So i think the Michelin and Pirelli are the best drivers tyres, for all models of e type.
the SP sport is sort of the most original for a series 2. But sadly the current tyres are not made by Dunlop. I do sell them http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/185vr15-dunlop-sp-sport.html but they are not made by Dunlop, they are made else where under license.
However the nearest to being original tyre that is currently available for a series 1 would be the Pirelli, because it is the only tyre still produced that you could have specified on a series 1 e type. and i feel that along with the Michelin XVS they are the best drivers tyres.
How many times do we have to keep hearing that Longstone sell tyres…by all means participate i debates and give advice or knowledge…but to keep on rubbishing everything other than what you sell is a bit boring… Steve
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False. The Cinturato of the 1960s was a fabric belted tire. The current tire is a steel belted tire. A different tire.
Closest to being the original tire would be the Dunlop Road Speed bias ply tire. Buy these if you want a REALLY exciting ride!
I use Vredestein Sprint Classic tires; the best in my experience. Not that much better than the Michelin XVS which is spectacular. Cinturatos, I have no experience but they are probably equally good. The XVS has a very nice asymmetrical tread with a good rationale for better rain handling and stronger outer sidewall.
Jerry
What do you mean false?
the point is that the Dunlop RS5 would be the most original, but it is no longer made. nor is anything else suitable that was made in period.
Is the Cinturato the only period tyre being made? i think so.
yes the construction is different to the way it was in the 60’s, because we are not allowed to use the same materials. and the materials that were used to make the Cinturato in the mid '50s were probably not the same as the ones they used in 1961. in fact the materials they used in 1961 are probably different to what was used in 1962. The other thing is the quality control used in making these tyres is considerably improved on the way they were made in those days, so we get much better uniformity and less failures. They are made using improved compounds, specially when it comes to moving water. all on a carcass that is suited to cars like an e type.
have i posted this image on here before https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17757453_1411257645607608_131234521420781143_n.jpg?oh=af1ecf72201823e61c9e9b5e2ab1a80b&oe=59E8A2F9
Reading this long debate, it is still unclear to me which is the “period-type” tyre with the best construction/behaviour for a Series 1.
I read that Dougal unambiguously makes the case for the Cinturato or the XVS 185/15, claiming they are far superior to anything else in terms of quality and ride.
Also Michelin is well known for the duration of their tyres. At a very expensive price however…
Others claim the Vred Classic 185/15 is either better or at least similar in terms of ride.
In addition, price is far cheaper (more than a factor 2). Construction quality is however put in question by Dougal, he e.g. shows a pic of kind of bubbling flange: is this an exceptional case? I would be surprised as Vredestein is a seller of quality tyres and it would not put at risk its reputation.
So where is the truth?
I must confess that I would be tempted by the quality of the XVS and the reputation of Michelin, but at more than 300 euro per XVS compared to around 120 Euro per Vred, there is no photo…
As noticed by some, I better put a set of Vreds every 5 years to have the quality ride of fresh tyres (even if not worn) instead of keeping XVSs for 7-10 years.
Interesting way of looking at it. and yes if you are buying on price, yes the Vredestein is cheaper and on those grounds it is attractive.
However on the subject of which is the period tyre is easy. I believe the Cinturato is the only one still produced for a series 1 e-type
Oo i’m glad i’ve found the bold facility
However which is best?
you know my view.
maybe my claim that the tyres that are made by 2 of the worlds best tyre manufacturers, is just based on the fact i sell them. but you can buy pretty much any tyre you want off us. However what would i encourage you to buy? well the best.
It is up to our customers to look after their bank account and if they want to buy based on price, that is up to them. Yet we will try to encourage our customers to buy the best cars for their car so they drive at their best long after the credit card bill has been forgotten.
just for fun. here is a film of my mate having a slight tangle in his e type attempting a loop the loop at Spa. Who’s a lucky boy then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLkpr0wjdM0
I have only used the Vreds, and to me the ride and handling is great,and it’s amazing how quiet they are on the grooved cement here in Houston where most car tires “sing.”
The price was right. Looks are subjective, but I think they look great even though longstone bashes their appearance and the owners that like them. But speaking of subjective, I love Lotus Elites and I love yellow sports cars, but his Elite looks absolutely hideous in that yellow color.
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I rather resent the suggestion that those who choose to drive on the Vreds are attracted to it because it is cheap and that they are just looking after their bank account and buying on price.
Like many, maybe most here, I could buy any tire I wanted - I didn’t choose the one you think is the only ‘period tyre’ because I get outstanding results with the Vreds.
I drove the car about 8,000 miles in the past year and expect to drive it more than that this year. The Vreds are great and quite possibly the most popular selection among those I see driving their E-Types on the long tours. Period correct and who has the most expensive tires doesn’t really enter into my decision.
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Not the same tire. Same tread and definitely better than the old one, but different construction, different materials. Different ride quality and handling.
Jerry
My experience is that after using and loving Michelin XVS for two decades, and changing over to Vredesteins, I found the Vredesteins slightly better handling than the XVS. Two decades of experience driving from new. XVS have been the best tire for the E-Type since about 1975 – much superior to the Cinturato of the day, so that Vredestein is an improvement is really saying something. I can’t speak to these modern reproductions of Cinturatos but I can accept that they are probably about the same in handling as the XVS.
I agree that Vredestein build quality is perhaps lower than Michelins. When I look at the sidewalls I see some small waves that would be better not there. But I have had Michelin tires fail with tread bubbles and casing problems too; Vredesteins are not perfect but in years of very hard use they are more than satisfactory. I can see that HR rated tires are not acceptable to UK DOT but I am glad that we don’t have such bureaucracy here, and E-Types with 3.54 axle ratio can’t exceed the speed limit of HR tires so they are perfectly good here. Even 3.07 cars will very seldom if ever be driven faster than 130 MPH for long periods of time. You know what your car needs, be sure to get that.
Dougal, your constant selling here is hurting yours and Longstone’s reputation. I’m sure some Americans would be interested in buying from Longstone, but you are losing some potential customers judging from posts here. I would certainly have been interested in trying Cinturatos but you are making them less attractive. And incidentally raising the profile of Vredesteins as user after user replies to you with positive reviews!
I see you are right, RS5 have been discontinued but if you hurry you can still get the last few from vendors here.
Jerry
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“Dougal, your constant selling here is hurting yours and Longstone’s reputation. I’m sure some Americans would be interested in buying from Longstone, but you are losing some potential customers judging from posts here. I would certainly have been interested in trying Cinturatos but you are making them less attractive. And incidentally raising the profile of Vredesteins as user after user replies to you with positive reviews!”
Too true! I have to laugh at some of the arguments being made, particularly the “two best tyre manufacturers” in the world. A truly empty statement. From a legal perspective, one can never sue someone for misrepresenting something as “the best” because it is classic puffery…from a salesman. It conveys no facts from which the truth or falsity of the statement can be judged. I can say that if the argument is that the two manufacturers will create a tire that will out perform the products of smaller companies, that is no more true than saying Toyota builds cars that outperform porsches. If we put any value on the performance testing that outfits like consumer reports or tirerack perform, there is no one company that has a monopoly on producing tires that (i) perform best on dry; (ii) perform best on wet; (iii) are the quietest; (iv) have the best resistance to tramlining; (v) provide the shortest stopping distances; (vi) have the best road holding or cornering characteristics; or (vii) have the best wear resistance. Anyone who makes such an argument simply is not credible. Dougall, if you want people to accept that the pirelli or XVS is better than a Vred classic, or Blockley, etc., then have an independent testing service test and post their conclusions so buyers can independently determine whether there is a difference and if so, what characteristics of the tire are most important to them, and is the price difference, if any, justified. Until then, a lot of this is unnecessary puffery, which as Jerry points out is probably doing Longstone more harm than good. Just my $.02
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Was he driving on XVS or Cinturatos? Just being cheeky!
There is a lot of waffle being talked here.
here is the rub:-
If you could have bought Vredestein, Pirelli Cinturato or Michelin XVS for the same price; nobody would have bought Vredestein.
So don’t tell me they are not bought on price.
Jerry you can argue your case, but I believe we all know that we would rather drive on Michelin or Pirelli.
I am not Vredestein bashing, i am just disputing things that are stated as fact that i don’t agree with, and would not like other people who read this forum to be mislead
Lundabo - racing e type on either CR6ZZ radials or Dunlop Racing Crossply. However he did well to keep it in one piece. that corner is Eau Rouge, a famous car smasher.
On the subject of back to back evidence. It is a very expensive process, and like you say there are several aspects to it, which make it difficult to compare. This is the closest i have come to it https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/image/longstone/english-website/porsche/porsche-classic-article.pdf
It is unfortunate that they are using different tread patterns to the e-type tyres, but it still makes good reading.
I was surprised that the Michelin XWX did not come out so well. However there are a couple of features that are not covered in this test, which are important and very much Michelin strong holds, where i believe they would have beaten all the other tyres:-
Longevity,
durability,
directional stability at prolonged high speed,
quality control (you don’t get failures with Michelin)
Michelin were better than Vredestein in the dry, but Vredestein were better in the wet. However all the extra features i have listed where Michelin excel, are the sort of feature that you balance off against wet performance. (wet soft - dry hard) so there is an element, when building a tyre of choosing where to excel, and i would suggest that longevity is one that has the greatest derogatory effect on all the other features you might desire (particularly wet performance).
the other 2 main features that sort of make this tyre test sort of irelavent to e type is:-
they didn’t test progressive handling, this was a Porsche test. A Porsche is not driven on the throttle the same as these earlier e types. they work on ultimate grip.
And most importantly. This test is not for the XVS. so it is not taking into consideration that massive benefits that the period asymmetric carcass and tread pattern has when fitted to a Chassis from this period such as the e-type, specially at high cruising speeds.
BRG - “Elite Basher” - you might not like yellow Elites, but i thrashed the living daylights out of mine last night and it was fabulous, light, precise, progressive. it throws itself into corners, while that little engine revs it’s knackers off. it is fantastic.
Yellow Elite? well maybe i love the look of that in the same way you like the look of the Vredestein