Hi again.
I am trying to decide what brake pads to install in the rear of the 69 OTS.
Problem is, I am not certain what kind of pads I have in the front, although
they are fairly new. How important is it that they match?
Chris
69 OTS
99 XJR
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Chris Rogers sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
Chris
Since only about 30 to 40 percent of your stopping power is handled
by your rear brakes, just get what ever pads you can find from any
of the usual suspects. Front to rear don’t have to be the same. As
a matter of fact most new cars use different friction materials on
the front and rear.
Joel–
The original message included these comments:
Hi again.
I am trying to decide what brake pads to install in the rear of the 69 OTS.
Problem is, I am not certain what kind of pads I have in the front, although
they are fairly new. How important is it that they match?
Chris
69 OTS
99 XJR
–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc
Denison, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from ex jag sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
Joel,
I am going to argue with you on this one. Currently I have ‘‘Green
Stuff’’ pads on the front, and XKs Unlimited Carbon-Kevlar pads on
the rear, and in the wet especially the rears lock up before the
fronts. This can be quite treacherous when really driving esp. in
curves. You want the fronts to lock just slightly before the
rears. And though the rears do a small percentage of the braking,
they also bear a small percentage of the weight during hard stops,
making their pads just as critical as the fronts.
Chris, I would just bite the bullet and replace fronts and rears at
the same time with the same pads. The mismatch is probably not
going to cause you problems, but in an emeregency it could really
catch you out. Cheap insurance to get them all right. And just
having replaced pads, rotors, and seals in the front, I can report
just the pads are no big deal. Even new seals are no big deal if
the pots are brass-sleeved or stainless.
No report yet on the Green Stuff pads, as they are not yet quite
broken in, and the rotors are still showing a little machining.
However at this point they are not as good grabbers as the rear C-K
pads. However, they seem pretty good even now, and so far not a
bit of squealing. They seem better at this point than the Axxis
semi-metallic pads I took off.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from mouton sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
Jerry,
I am most interested in your report on the Green Stuff, as I
have them ready to install on FHC.
I believe that the all pads should matched sets, for this
car or any car. And, because I favor ‘‘Rotor friendly pads’’,
that means something like a ‘‘Greenstuff’’ pad…er…I
think…???
Every time I look at the semi-metallic pads I think: ‘‘Rotor
Wear’’ .
Semi Mettalic, heck, they seem highly magnetic too! (Heavy
Iron!)
Abner–
The original message included these comments:
No report yet on the Green Stuff pads, as they are not yet quite
broken in, and the rotors are still showing a little machining.
–
lilAbner
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from lilAbner sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
Abner,
That has not been my experience. I have owned my car for 32 years,
and most of its life I used Mintex (now Axxis, as I understand)
semi-metallic pads. Over all that time, no perceptible rotor wear.
Then I went with carbon kevlar pads, and rotors wore noticeably.
And these were still the factory rotors after 30 years. On the
positive side, the rotor wear cleaned them up, and I think this had
something to do with the marvelously improved brake grip.
OTOH, I just changed the rotors and etc., and heck, it’s no big
deal. You can pretty much ignore rotor wear as far as I am
concerned. I am certainly not going to let it influence my choice
of pads. YMMV.
Jerry–
The original message included these comments:
Every time I look at the semi-metallic pads I think: ‘‘Rotor
Wear’’ .
–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from mouton sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
How many miles?–
The original message included these comments:
That has not been my experience. I have owned my car for 32 years,
–
lilAbner
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from lilAbner sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
Abner,
80,000 since I bought it, plus unknown number of miles while the
speedomoter was broken (probably not more than a few thousand).
Current mileage on the car is 142,000, pretty good wear for rotors!
Jerry–
The original message included these comments:
How many miles?
–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
OTOH, I just changed the rotors and etc., and heck, it’s no
big deal. You can pretty much ignore rotor wear as far as I
am concerned.
while on the subject, my rotors have surface rust, thanks to the car
forcibly sitting in a not-so-dry storage
will some sandpaper clean them up? or is there any more suitable way of
cleaning them?
thanks
diego
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from Diego Montefusco sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
A couple of good stops, in everyday driving, will polish those
rotors up just fine. Trying to sand or grind the rust off free
hand will lead to grief. You should use a brake lathe to ensure
there are no high/low spots on the rotor.–
The original message included these comments:
while on the subject, my rotors have surface rust, thanks to the car
forcibly sitting in a not-so-dry storage
will some sandpaper clean them up? or is there any more suitable way of
cleaning them?
–
Pete 70 XKE (193K) 88 XJ6 (233K) 88 XJ6 (217K) 60 Mini
Severna park, Maryland, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
Diego wrote: while on the subject, my rotors have
surface rust, thanks to the car
forcibly sitting in a not-so-dry storage
will some sandpaper clean them up? or is there
any more suitable way of
cleaning them?------------------
If the surface rust is not too bad, just drive down
the street and step on the brakes. It’s amazing how
fast the rotors clean up.
Larry
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from mouton sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
Jerry
I can’t comment on Green Stuff pads or Carbon-Kevlar since I
haven’t had any experience with either. My point was that 50% of
the cars out there have totally different systems between front and
rear (disc front, drum rear) and of those cars with four wheel
disc, 90% are using different materials and pad sizes between front
and rear. The Series 1 is somewhat unique in that it has identical
pads for both front and back. The increase in stopping power for
the front then, is accomplished by larger rotors and calipers. Even
with this increase, however, the fronts appear to be inadequate in
comparison to the rears. When you combine this with a rear pad of
superior material and a higher coefficient of friction it’s no
wonder your rear wheels are locking up way too early. Maybe it was
Jaguar’s first attempt at a frontal ABS system. You could always
put the Green Stuff in the rear and CK in the front, it may balance
out your system. Or, as you said, in a Series 1, use the same type
of pad for front and rears. But, would this apply to the Series 11
and 111? Who knows?
Joel–
The original message included these comments:
Joel,
I am going to argue with you on this one. Currently I have ‘‘Green
Stuff’’ pads on the front, and XKs Unlimited Carbon-Kevlar pads on
the rear, and in the wet especially the rears lock up before the
fronts. This can be quite treacherous when really driving esp. in
curves. You want the fronts to lock just slightly before the
rears. And though the rears do a small percentage of the braking,
they also bear a small percentage of the weight during hard stops,
making their pads just as critical as the fronts.
Chris, I would just bite the bullet and replace fronts and rears at
the same time with the same pads. The mismatch is probably not
–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc
Denison, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from JKOHLER@sbcglobal.net sent Mon 13 Mar 2006:
Pete and Larry are right. You might notice some brake squeal
afterwards. Don’t worry though, it’s just the rust that got
embedded into your pads and will go away shortly.
Joel–
The original message included these comments:
Diego wrote: while on the subject, my rotors have
surface rust, thanks to the car
forcibly sitting in a not-so-dry storage
will some sandpaper clean them up? or is there
any more suitable way of
cleaning them?
–
ex jag, '66 E-type S1 4.2, '56 XK140dhc
Denison, TX, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from ex jag sent Tue 14 Mar 2006:
Joel,
I’m pretty confident that when I get the same material front and
back the balance will be fine. Heck, the engineers worked on it a
long time at Jaguar… Right now it’s a problem of my own making.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from ex jag sent Tue 14 Mar 2006:
Joel,
The brakes are almost even, the rears don’t lock up except in a
full-on stop, then just briefly before the fronts. I didn’t mean
to suggeest they were way off. It’s the pads, as I said.
The E Type brakes in 3.8, SI and SII all specify the same material
front and rear, Mintex M.59 – Mintex has become Axxis, I believe.
So you would expect that with the same material all around they
would be balanced as designed.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
I’ve always perferred the rears to lock “just before” the fronts. Otherwise you can’t steer with the rear end (swinging it left or right) if needed. That has saved my patoot more than once!!
LLoyd–
It’s not just a broomstick. It’s a NIMBUS 2000 !
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: “mouton” jerry@moutons.org
In reply to a message from ex jag sent Tue 14 Mar 2006:
Joel,
The brakes are almost even, the rears don’t lock up except in a
full-on stop, then just briefly before the fronts. …
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from soothsayer1@comcast.net sent Tue 14 Mar 2006:
Lloyd,
I know we’ve been through this more than once, but I wanted to
point out to others that if the fronts slide a slight release of
the brake replants the front as weight is transferred forward
during braking. Plus if the fronts slide, you don’t impart
rotation to the car that has to be tamed later. If the rears
slide, you will get a rotation going, and less skilled hands than
yours may have a hard time getting it back in the bottle. Note
that you can’t really steer the rear if it’s sliding, only if it’s
gripping. What you get is a spin, and often a snap-spin. Racers
recommend fronts lock up slightly before fronts. See e.g. ‘‘Going
Faster’’ (Skip Barber School), p. 202, for example. BTW this is a
wonderful book, by the way, best on driving I have ever seen.
YMMV.
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
Good point Jerry,
But that is just the way I learned to do it… What can I say? I think it was because American cars of the 50’s to somewhere tended to understeer and this was a technique to start the rear moving if needed.
Actually, the past couple times I’ve used it was to move the car sideways while going straight on a narrow roadway (to avoid a rear ending). It keeps the nose pointed downroad (if that’s a word) so you con’t get it sideways and start fishtailing.
I figure if I have to lock up any wheel during a turn, I’ve already made the mistake before I turned the whell. (Yes, I’ve done that too, and recently)
Come try some of my homemade asparagus-beet soup and we’ll talk about it.
LLoyd–
He tried to impress her. He was courteous and surprised her. But he knew the relationship was doomed when she tasted his home made asparagus-beet soup and made the same noise as a cat with a fur ball.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: “mouton” jerry@moutons.org
In reply to a message from @soothsayer1 sent Tue 14 Mar 2006:
Lloyd,
I know we’ve been through this more than once, but I wanted to
point out to others that if the fronts slide a slight release of
the brake replants the front as weight is transferred forward
during braking. Plus if the fronts slide, you don’t impart
rotation to the car that has to be tamed later. If the rears
slide, you will get a rotation going, and less skilled hands than
yours may have a hard time getting it back in the bottle. Note
that you can’t really steer the rear if it’s sliding, only if it’s
gripping. What you get is a spin, and often a snap-spin. Racers
recommend fronts lock up slightly before fronts. See e.g. ‘‘Going
Faster’’ (Skip Barber School), p. 202, for example. BTW this is a
wonderful book, by the way, best on driving I have ever seen.YMMV.
Jerry
–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from soothsayer1@comcast.net sent Wed 15 Mar 2006:
Lloyd,
Isn’t that what handbrakes are for?? :-0–
The original message included these comments:
Good point Jerry,
But that is just the way I learned to do it… What can I say? I think it was because American cars of the 50’s to somewhere tended to understeer and this was a technique to start the rear moving if needed.
LLoyd
–
Ray Livingston - '64 OTS Santa Cruz, CA
Santa Cruz, CA, United States
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
In reply to a message from soothsayer1@comcast.net sent Wed 15 Mar 2006:
Lloyd,
Thanks for the invite! I’m sure your soup can’t be beet!
Say, we’re going right by your house on JONAT, you should trail
along for a while. April 11 - 12. Overnight at Monterey (assuming
I can find a reasonable hotel!)
Jerry–
Jerry Mouton '64 FHC
–Posted using Jag-lovers JagFORUM [forums.jag-lovers.org]–
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php
OH? The little stick you pull on that goes, “click click click”?
LLoyd–
He tried to impress her. He was courteous and surprised her. But he knew the relationship was doomed when she tasted his home made asparagus-beet soup and made the same noise as a cat with a fur ball.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: “Ray Livingston” jagboy@pacbell.net
In reply to a message from @soothsayer1 sent Wed 15 Mar 2006:
Lloyd,
Isn’t that what handbrakes are for?? :-0
Search the archives & forums - http://search.jag-lovers.org/
Subscription changes - http://www.jag-lovers.com/cgi-bin/majordomo
Support Jag-lovers - Donate at http://www.jag-lovers.org/donate04.php