Extraneous Screws in Holes in '38 SS Scuttle

Rob_Reilly · April 15, 2019, 9:19pm

Installing my ID Plate (thanks Ed, now the car feels like it has an identity, it told me so) I noticed some long screws with nuts under there that weren’t holding anything. Plus four smaller round head screws, also not doing anything.
So I removed them.

And there are two little round head ones on the left side as well, also not doing anything except filling holes in the scuttle.

What’s up with that? Am I missing something?
Anybody know?

Peter_Scott · April 15, 2019, 10:12pm

Hi Rob,

Definitely non-original. I don’t recognise the hole pattern but presumably some accessory item. Radio or radio power supply, windscreen washer, heater, use of an alternative type of wiper motor???

Peter

Rob_Reilly · April 16, 2019, 1:23am

Ok thanks Peter, I figured it would be turn out to be something like a radio.
Not heater related, as the Delaney Gallay unit was all located in the center. No evidence of windscreen washers and the wiper motor is still original.

Any guesses on the two holes on the left side? They are #2BA screws and the normal thick nuts and washers that we see in other places on these cars.

Peter_Scott · April 16, 2019, 9:09am

The other two are also non-original and I can’t think what they were securing either. If it was on the inside then it would be hidden behind the glove box.

Peter

Ed_Nantes · April 16, 2019, 9:25am

Not radio whichw as a Philco on the SS and under the dash Pic attached

2 BA seems to ean it wasn’t put there in USA , possibly a clip for wiring

Rob_Reilly · April 16, 2019, 5:07pm

Ok thanks. I will mark them on my chart in my notebook as holes to be filled when I get to that point. I have to fix the battery area as well.

Rob_Reilly · April 18, 2019, 9:52pm

But wait, there’s more!

Curiosity snuck up and trounced me when I wasn’t looking.
I found eight more holes behind the battery plugged by screws. This time it seems to be a more serious effort, as there were rubber washers on them above and below. Various types of screws, cheese head and hex head and seem to be 1/4 BSW thread near as I can determine.

I am beginning to suspect that there was once a different heater here, before the Delaney Gallay, possibly a Smith’s.
But as I recall, the Smith’s heater was not offered in 1938, so if it was a Smith’s, it is likely an after-sale installation that went bad in the 1950s, and so the Delaney Gallay replaced it.

Peter_Scott · April 18, 2019, 10:39pm

The rubber washers might indicate a desire to reduce noise from a vibrating heater fan or possibly a vibrating radio power supply.

Peter

Ed_Nantes · April 19, 2019, 4:28am

I don’t think a heater was offered till more like 1940
The pattern of the 4 hles sort of reminds me of the mounting bolt pattenr of a MK IV heater bracket
Presumably the big holes were forheater hoses which ona MK IV came through fittings on the vertical face
There will be small holes where bi-furcated rivets held the unde r dash insulation up

Wiggles · April 19, 2019, 4:09pm

Lightening holes…

Rob_Reilly · April 19, 2019, 5:41pm

I can believe the rubber washers were for either rain water sealing or vibration isolation.
The larger holes certainly had the hoses with grommets for the Delaney Gallay heater, and presumably could have been for whatever heater may have been previously there.

I decided to remove the battery tray, which was quite obviously not original. I think Peter S pointed that out some months ago.

And I find more holes. And the obvious reason the battery tray was replaced. There is insufficient support under the battery and the vibration of that weight caused the metal to fatigue and tear.
I now have 45 holes to fill, and 3 long tears caused by the weight of the battery.

So it raises a new question. What was there originally?
I saw three strengthening pieces welded underneath, two of which have threaded inserts such as I have seen on door window winding mechanisms. They are 1/4-26 BSF thread.

I ran a tap through them and stuck a couple of bolts in them.

Also what looked like an L brace along the front that was bent over to fit the tray, so I straightened it up.
I’m thinking these threaded inserts were originally for holding down the battery, and the third piece with a larger hole was where the battery ground cable was originally attached.

Does that seem right to you all? Were there L braces on all sides of the battery? The tray I removed, those 3 L braces are riveted to the main panel. Could that have been cut from another donor car?

Peter_Scott · April 19, 2019, 6:03pm

Mine just has the metal of scuttle with the 1/4" BSF captive nuts in it.
Here’s photo of a restored car (not mine) that has a section set into it but I don’t think there was any additional strengthening originally. My top deck has always seemed fairly solid and secure.

Perhaps mine originally had four small angle pieces like this fairly original car although it didn’t have them when I bought it…

Peter

Jordymk5 · April 19, 2019, 8:40pm

Here is my '40 before and after. If you can zoom in enough I attempted to identify any holes I could and filled the others. Many holes were carried right on through to the MkIV

Rob_Reilly · April 19, 2019, 8:54pm

Thanks, Peter and Graham.
Surfing through my photo files and ssjaguardata, I found a few others with the L angle pieces, notably 30562 and 46030. I’m now confident this is how it was, though there may well be variations between '38, '39 and '40 cars. For example in Peter’s second picture the front piece steps forward where mine is backward.

Ed_Nantes · April 20, 2019, 9:01am

LIghtning is attracted to rod s not holes.

Rob On the MK IV the earth starp was bolted direct to the top surface of the firewall… As it turned out maybe not the best place as due to some elctrical issues [ don’t aske about electricity] but it did cause the paint round the bolt to flake. So on the underside we attach another heavy earth cable to the inside endof the bolt and take it down to the chassis, Works, so far.

Peter_Scott · April 20, 2019, 9:35am

I totally agree and there’s no problem connecting it directly to engine which is what I chose to do.

Peter

Ed_Nantes · April 20, 2019, 11:18am

But I’m a bit sifty and mine looks original :>)

Peter_Scott · April 20, 2019, 12:30pm

Fair enough. I hate to see modern items in old cars but I don’t care too much about concours.

Peter

Rob_Reilly · May 2, 2019, 9:04pm

A new mystery.
I decided to clean off the tar on the scuttle to get a better look at the cracks caused by the weight of the battery.
On the left hand side I discovered marks in the paint from where a rectangular something was installed, and that four of the aforementioned extraneous holes form a rectangular pattern.

Here are the clues for all you Sherlocks.
The marks in the paint measure about 8-1/2" x 1-1/2".
The hole pattern is 7-3/4" x 13/16".
The holes are 3/16" dia. or sized for a 2BA screw.
Whatever the something was, it was put there while the car was Ivory, and removed before the car was painted Black. The car was registered in 1956 in Peterborough UK as being Black. So this thing was installed and removed sometime between 1938 and 1956.
Anybody got any guesses as to what it might have been?
Serious or humorous, I’ll take either.

If nobody comes up with anything better, I’m going with a wartime siren and Churchill or Dowding ownership.

Peter_Scott · May 2, 2019, 9:31pm

Following the extensive discussion of fire extinguishers, how about one of these? Measuring between my battery and the outside edge of the scuttle I have 13" and I think my battery is if anything, smaller than proper period ones. That said, the Junior Pyrene was shorter than the regular models and apparently just 11" long.

Peter