H8 Carburetters

Continuing the discussion from Very early XK120 engine parts I’ve never seen before:

Wiggles, you raise a most interesting point, but rather than gazump the ‘Very early XK120 engine parts’ thread, time to start a new thread.

You note your parents Silverstone LT-2 had ‘Sandcast’ (H8) carburetters.
LT-2 was a car built up basically as a standard XK120 chassis 660748, but with a lightweight-magnesium body, built alongside LT-1 (660751) and LT-3 (660741), all in April 1951.
My understanding is Jaguar built up these three essentially standard (for April 1951) XK120 chassis but with ‘lightweight’ bodies as a Plan B, if Plan A - having the all-new C-type Jaguar ready for the June 1951 Le Mans race was not ready. As it turned out the first C-types (XKC001, XKC002 and XKC003) were ready in time, but my understanding is with respect to their Engines fitted, they were all stock standard (for June 1951) XK120, with the sole exception of having manual-choke twin-H6 carburetters fitted, and not the usual XK120/Mark VII thermo-choke twin-H6. After the 1951 Le Mans race, Jaguar decided they needed to increase the power of the XK120 engine for the C-type, and although not then called as such, they developed the C-type engine. The main things upgraded/modified for the C-type engine was the first-generation C-type Head, a revised Inlet manifold, and indeed twin ‘sandcast H8’ carburetters now fitted.
The three 1951 Le Mans team cars XKC001, XKC002 and XKC003 were upgraded with the new C-type engine now fitted, and indeed ran in the June 1952 Le Mans race with this now H8 equipped C-type engine.

My research into H8 carburetters clearly identifies Jaguar working with SU to develop the H8 carburetter specifically for the June 1952 Le Mans race, albeit prototype/experimental work would have started sometime after June 1951, but certainly before June 1952, and my best guess is April/May 1952 as the first working/functional XK engine with H8 fitted.

The first public/race apperance of a C-type after the June 1951 LeMans was at the 15 September 1951 Tourist Trophy race, and although I cannot be positive, most improbable to yet have the new C-type engine fitted, although possible, but if so, these are post-new car modifications.

The fourth car built - XKC004, that was sold privately, was dispatched from factory in May 1952, and again I cannot be sure, most likely had the new C-type engine with H8 carbs fitted, thus if so, was the first Jaguar to be factory fitted with H8 from new.

Now it is most probable that LT-2 (and LT-3), both sold-off/dispatched in August 1951, would have still had their standard XK120 engines fitted, with H6 carburetters (and not H8), but maybe manual-choke ones also as originally fitted to XKC001/002/003.

After Le Mans 1952, Jaguar did offer/list an upgrade package of C-type Head/revised Inlet Manifold and twin sandcast H8 carburetters, but prevailing evidence is these scarce ‘competition shop’ upgrade kits were only available/offered to selected racing teams wanting more performance out of their XK120s.
So given your recollection of LT-2 having ‘sandcast’ H8 carburetters, and I have a photo of LT-2 under restoration with H8 carburetters, it is most probable that LT-2 was the recipient of one of these ‘upgrade kits’.

The actual H8 carburetters are dateable to month and year made. The earliest H8 carburetters so far dated are April 1952 and these are ‘prototype’ H8 carburetters, with the earliest ‘production’ H8 carburetters being dated May 1952.

I would love any close up photos of the H8 carburetters as now fitted to LT-2 - would certainly help with my better understanding of the origins of the H8 carburetter, but based on evidence to date, I have to believe H8 did not yet exist in 1951 at all, and were first seen in an SU/Jaguar prototype functioning form in April 1952, but may have been first seen in early 1952 when Jaguar was also internally testing their new disc-brakes, and maybe publically in the April 1952 Goodwood race where XKC003 was raced by Moss, or in May 1952 Silverstone race where Stirling Moss won in XKC002, and XKC001 retired while running 2nd.

Does anyone know of any Engine photos of XKC001/002 or 003 at these April/May 1952 race meetings?

Roger

The H8s now fitted to LT2 are both later AUC bodies, so not original ex factory. Unfortunately, from a research standpoint, neither is the cylinder head.

Simon

XKC001 XKC002 or XKC003 Le mans 1951
1 3/4 inch SU’s

XKC003 2 June 1952 just unlucky this pic does not to show carbs

Roger,

The original engine of LT2 was “modified” in 1954 by then owner Charles Fifield and was described in various races as having a 3800 cc engine. It might well be that H8’s have been installed at that same moment (H8’s were available in 1954). Fifield also fitted “Iskenderian” camshafts and high-compression pistons, according present owner Chris Jaques.

This supports your story that it was impossible for LT2 to have H8’s from 1951 onwards.

Regards,

Bob K.

That is possible: back in 2003, I gave Mr Jaques a few bits and pieces that I still had, from LT-2: one of those pieces was a sand cast bell.

There has recently been an in-depth historical article written in a magazine (title escapes me) that may address some of those mods.

The XK engine the car came to my parents with, in -~1957, got stolen.

from memory did the car have a V8 fitted at one point?

Terry and “Wiggles”,

The article on the XK 120 LTs was by me and published in several parts in the XK Gazette.

Terry: Paul’s parents fitted a small block 283 Chevy V8 engine in LT2.

Paul: you promised to go through the content of the LT2 chapter, looking for imperfections or any additions. Did you make any progress?

Regards,

Bob K.

Yes: the cost of Jaguar parts was considerable, and Dad put a heavily-modded Chevy 283, complete with GM’s Rochester fuel injection, about 1960.

He also put a Muncie 4-speed in the car.

It was only slightly faster, but was a helluva lot cheaper to maintain!

Its a good series of photos Terry, and I think you will find the 1951 LeMans photo is XKC001 - Car No. 23 - the Johnson/Biondetti car that retired after 6 hours with a cracked oil-pipe, loss of oil pressure - but indeed more evidence that these were in June 1951 stock standard XK120 engines, with the racing environment all part of improving the breed!
Car23

Wonder if this series of pictures were actually from the 6 hour pit-stop, investigating the oil-pressure problem, and decision to retire unfixable in the Pits?

But I am still looking for a good underbonnet shot showing carburetters of the 1952 LeMans cars

Roger

Chris Jaques owns a C Type, too: maybe he might have some info?

in Andrew Whyte book - sports, racing & works competition cars to 1953 page 360 is copy of ‘the motor’ oct 22, 1952 ‘C’ road test. indistinct picture seems to show sandcast H8 .? there must be a sharper picture out there somewhere. he indicates elsewhere that the 1951 cars were still running the two small carbs.
a lovely pair of books imho

Sorry for the red circle, that was for another topic, but here is a shot of the 1952 Le Mans where you can see the H8 carbs. I think this is in Norman Dewis’s book.

Great shot - thanks for that.
Maybe I should have bought the Norman Dewis book afterall, but not a cheap book, especially with outrageous postage charges from UK.
Does it have many good period ‘underbonnet shots’
Roger

Hi Roger
I Will send you the photos I promised of the inlet manifold and carbs off this early XK120 engine I have. Been up to my eyes in a 3.8 E type for a week!
Nigel

Thanks Nigel.Away from home for two days, so not urgent.

Is that a smaller generator or a larger pulley .?
A larger pulled would slow the generator speed

Ed ,the engine is at 4000/5500 revs most of the time hence the larger pulley.
Peter B.

Thanks I suspected that might be,
I recall an article in a UK mag from the 50s[ Motor or Autocar] saying that jaguar had gone to some lengths to keep the weight down, Aluminium wiring and lighter headlamps [ no not a pun] and a lighter generator. The total saving was mentioned as 23 lb
I wonder if keen concours judges look for the aluminium wire these days.

Can’t speak to whether there was aluminium wire on LT2, but the generator case was drilled for lightness, and some wag drilled the ignition key—one of the winged kind—to save an ounce!

Peter with those high revs are you okay with the stock crankcase breather setup?