Oil sump removal

I’m starting to get a little frustrated with removing the sump so I thought I’d take a break and ask the experts. I’ve read the manual and read old posts but I still can’t get it out. What I’ve done so far:

  1. Removed all of the screws and studs.
  2. Loosened the engine stabilizer.
  3. Removed the crankshaft damper.
  4. Placed floor jack under the front edge of the bell housing and raised engine slightly. NOTE: I didn’t loosen the front engine mounts. The engine only raised by perhaps 1/2" before I started lifting it off of the lift.
  5. I also rotated the engine so that the number one piston (closest to the bulkhead,right?) was approximately 5 7/8" down as measured from the top of the spark plug threads. This suggestion came from an old post which said the crank could be in the way of removal.

Any suggestions?

I’ve always had to do that and jack up the front and rear of the engine as high as I could.

Rubber mallet ?

Patrick
'66 FHC

Rick, it would seem that you have done everything necessary and more. I never removed the dampner or jacked up the engine / trans. when dropping the sump on my 71 4.2. It is important to remove the reaction plate to clear the back of the sump. But with all nuts removed, the dipstick pulled plus (oil drained), I am with Patrick… a soft blow hammer to tap around the top of the pan and break the gasket seal should be all that you need.

I have never found any need or benefit in rotating the crank to align a particular cylinder either, the crank and journals are all on the same plane. Keep going, it gets better from here on in. best regards, Brian/ Mytype

Try a little judicious heat. Emphasis on the adjective. I’ve recently removed the sumps of my son’s and his gf’s Jettas and the wife’s Rav4 and all three required heat to soften the sealant sufficiently to pop them off, using a thin scraper worked into the seam at a corner in combination with a rubber mallet.

The one time I removed the E-type sump - and timing cover - in situ to replace the front seal it also (iirc, it was a long time ago) required heat. I prefer oxyacetylene with the smallest tip possible but a propane torch will also do the job. I do not believe I had to remove the torsion bar reaction plate (did I??). Clean the area well of all oil, make sure your carbs aren’t leaking and keep the torch moving.

Myself, I’d leave the reaction plate alone.

Patrick
'66 FHC

I’ve read a lot of posts and the majority say don’t mess with the reaction plate.
Just to be clear, the sump is loose. It just won’t clear something.

Rick,
I assume the sumo is hitting the reaction plate. That 5 7/8 dimension is from an old post of mine and the sump on my 64 will clear the reaction plate with the crank in that position, with no engine jacking, which is basically with &1 very close to bottom dead center. Try moving the crank a few degrees either way/
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.

Rick,
I assume the sump is hitting the reaction plate. That 5 7/8 dimension is from an old post of mine and the sump on my 64 will clear the reaction plate with the crank in that position, with no engine jacking, which is basically with &1 very close to bottom dead center. Try moving the crank a few degrees either way.
Bob
889076
Plymouth, Mi.

Rick, did you double-nut the studs to remove them from the block?

Iirc, you need to remove the rearmost studs. Been awhile since I did it.

Take the dipstick out, take out the two engine mounting bolts , leave the reaction plate in place, put the damper back on and use it to jack the front of the engine up as high as it will go…

I had same problem, adjust the crank shaft until you sump clears CrankShaftWeb. You might need a helper of course.

Patrick
'66 FHC

That sounds dangerous. I do not see how removing engine mount bolts helps (?). And why lift engine up (?). My 3.8 EType Sump dropped (after moving crank webs around) without doing all that.

Patrick
'66 FHC

100% AGREE !

Patrick
'66 FHC

That was my experience. Left the damper and reaction plate on, but it was hanging up on something at the rear of the sump. Rotating the crank did not help. Ultimately removing the engine mounting bolts and raising the engine was the key (but I remember being concerned about pulling something apart when raising the engine, like radiator hoses.)

Rod

I agree with Rod and Sozfingers. Jacking up the engine by the crank pulley is not dangerous and it greatly facilitates removal of the pan. An alternative would be to use your engine hoist to accomplish the engine lifting. You still have to raise both the front and rear of the assembled engine and transmission.

Actually, I used a ceiling chain hoist to raise the engine and a floor jack the raise the transmission. As I recall there was some “negotiating” between the engine height and the tranny height to find the “sweet spot.”

Rod

On my S2 4.2, I did the following, not necessarily in this order:

  1. removed damper
  2. loosened engine stabilizer
  3. loosened engine mounts a bit
  4. removed dipstick and oil return hose
  5. removed nuts and bolts holding the pan
  6. jacked at bell-housing an inch or two

The exhaust was fouling the pan and that was ultimately the thing that I had to move out of the way.

I did not move the reaction plate. Pan gasket was not a problem.

I do not believe crankshaft position mattered, but I am not 100% certain.

I did the above a few weeks ago and will be putting it all back this month. (main bearings and big-ends replaced. That’s a post in itself)

remember: It went on, so it will come off.

1 Like

By “damper”, I meant harmonic balancer & pulley, in case I was ambiguous.

When you go to reinstall the pan you will greatly simplify the process if you make up and use a couple of short guide pins. Use a couple of 5/16 fine thread bolts. Cut the heads off, and round off the cut. Insert into the block on each side. You need about 3/4 to 1 inch of bolt shank protruding from the block, and this will guide the pan and the gasket into it’s correct position, and more importantly hold it there while you hold it up and simultaneously try to put a couple of bolts into it to secure it to the block… I put a cut across the top of the cut portion of the shank so I can get a screwdriver in to remove them if they get stubborn coming out. You can of course use as many as you want but use at least two, one on each side - one forward and one to the rear.