That's the brakes

(David Ahlers) #1

Shipwrights disease: It started out as my hair falling out…of my driver side carpet. Ordered new carpets. Climbed “down under” to vacuum out, to find the jute padding wet. So there’s a master cylinder in my near future. Interestingly, after fluid changes every two to three years, warm winter storage, it seems 18 years is all you get out of a M/C. You also get new carpets ! The good news is the rear calipers aren’t leaking as I thought. Where was that fluid going? Now I know. A couple questions to the brain trust: ('69 S-2 ots)

  1. Are the “Made in GB” Lockheed master cylinder / reaction valve assemblies the way to go? I’ve read here about reversed seals and impossible to bleed scenarios, not sure it was these M/C’s tho’.

  2. Is it likely that my booster is long in the tooth as well?

  3. At the Amelia cars & coffee a guy told me my hydraulics were doomed because I wasn’t using Castrol LMA. Been using Valvoline Syn, but have found dark fluid settled in rez when I flushed. Any thoughts on that one campers?

  4. Would anyone recommend rebuilding the M/C instead of replace with new? Where to buy good quality rebuild kit? Its a 85% savings over new parts (less of my labor which is free???). Damn I just broke my brake cylinder hone trying to rebuild my Moen shower distribution block.

  5. How do you clean brake fluid from jute? By getting new jute perhaps?
    Thank you all. Dave

(Mark Gordon) #2

In response to your question regarding a rebuild kit vs new parts, my personal experience with a clutch rebuild kit (which is likely to be of the same quality as a brake MC rebuild kit) was disastrous, with a complete and sudden failure after only a couple of years. I then sent it, the original one I believe, off to White Post Restorations for a rebuild which included resleaving and a lifetime guarantee. My advice is to do it right once and then forget it.

(69 FHC ) #3

Non-silicone brake fluid is water soluble. If the jute is out of the car rinse the area with warm soapy water followed by rinse with warm water. Compress it between two towels to get the excess water out then leave it out in the sun to dry completely.

(67 OTS S1) #4

I agree with Mark send your M/C and slave out for a sleeving and talk with others about Castor which I use and a synthetic
I think they dont mix well so if you change you need to really flush the lines. Might be a good time to also replace lines. I put a SS line to the bottom of the slave and then a hard line to the trans tunnel opening with a new bleed nipple.

(Ray Livingston) #5

My experience with a brand-new Lockheed clutch slave cylinder, about 6-7 years ago:

Installed a new Lockheed clutch slave in the middle of a road trip, following the catastrophic failure of the old slave after ~15 years of service. The new Lockheed failed catastrophically in less than 24 hours. The vendor sent a replacement. which also failed catastrophically in less than 24 hours. In both, the (Chinese) seal pretty much dissolved in the DOT3/4 brake fluid - turned completely to mush. I machined a new custom piston, to accept a good quality generic dual-lip HDPE seal, which has been working fine since.
“New” and “Lockheed” are no guarantee of quality.

Ray L.

(Tom D) #6

It appears results between rebuilding and replacing are inconsistent. Both have had problems. I typically will rebuild, unless the bores are really bad. My S1 has had all the same cylinders, etc. since I have had the car, 1980. Always rebuilt. If it has been 18 years, I would rebuild or replace everything at one time, including hoses.

(67 OTS S1) #7

There seemed to be bunch of brake masters that weren’t good from day one. I sent mine out to be redone and returned it twice as the rebuild didn’t pass a bench test for pressure. They finally gave up on mine unit and gave me one off their shelf. But I think I drove for about 30 years with no rear brakes! The good news is that now after 30 years I have still perfect NOS rotors :slight_smile:

(Geo Hahn 1969 Series 2 OTS) #8

Just one data point but… I replaced with new both the brake master (Lockheed from XKs) and the slave/servo (Lookheed from Welsh) and both are fine.

I chose to rebuild the clutch master & slave as the cylinders looked good and it is a less critical component.

(David Ahlers) #9

George, how long ago did you replace your M/C?
It seems to me as if there were some bad repros a time back which might explain Ray’s experience. Currently SNG offers at least 2 M/C’s, but has the British manufactured version listed as “recommended”.

Years ago I did a quick rebuild on my clutch slave. It failed again, then I found some NOS Lockheed(?) parts and its been in there for at least a decade.

I might order the new assembly & the rebuild kit. Pull it apart after the new pieces arrive so I can inspect the bore. But more importantly - not screw up the reassembly sequence. If the bore is pitted badly, go new. If its good try the $30 rebuild versus the $300 new part.

Thanks guys!

(Geo Hahn 1969 Series 2 OTS) #10

October, 2018. lorem ipsum

(David Ahlers) #11

Just ordered parts.
Jeremy@SNG confirmed that there were Chinese knock offs with Lockheed branding in the market, so Ray L’s experience was likely with counterfeit parts. Jeremy assured me his parts were genuine Lockheed and my reaction valve wouldn’t stick. I took the plunge.

Feels like I just finished bleeding the rear discs a little while ago. Can’t wait !

(Brian Ternamian) #12

As far as rebuilding S1 clutch slave cylinders - if the bore is OK then fit a new sealing cup from any auto parts store (7/8") and you’re good to go. It won’t die because of the fluid you’re using and it’ll be cheap (under a buck). You typically do not need the entire kit as the rest of the parts do not wear or go away - only the sealing cup.

I think the auto parts stores still sell these cups separately from a segmented box of many sizes for various purposes. I have some left over from some old purchases so I don’t know about what they sell now.

Bottom line is you do not need anything except the sealing cup to rebuild the clutch slave cylinder if the bore is good or can be honed so.

(Geo Hahn 1969 Series 2 OTS) #13

And (if I am recalling correctly) I didn’t even remove the cylinder from the bell housing - just pumped out the old piston and fitted it up with a replacement seal.

(Bob Faster) #14

I am going to chime in here.
I replaced the M/C and the booster both in 2012, M/C from SNG and the booster from Welsh.
also bought a clutch M/C and slave from XKS. I spread the wealth I guess. that was about 5000 miles ago now.

and everything was going great until YOU guys started talking about this !!

just recently I noticed my brakes holding a few seconds after a stop. its a nice feature in my mini cooper, but not supposed to happen in the E. So a new Reaction valve is on the bench waiting warmer temps to be installed. hopefully thats the fix.

Bob F

(Robert Thomas 68 FHC ) #15


I was having the same issue, and someone on the board here suggested I check the vacuum hoses. I found several that had collapsed, particularly the one coming off the back side of the reaction valve. The PO had used fuel line instead of vacuum hose. (Fuel line resists internal pressure, not vacuum. )

You might want to check that first

(Bob Faster) #16

Thanks Bob, great idea. my hoses are still the originals but one of them could have delaminated internally and be collapsing. I am going to pull the hoses and look them all over.

Bob F

(David Ahlers) #17

Try lubing the reaction valve before plunking down your $'s.

(67 OTS S1) #18

I just worked on a TR6 and the rear brake lines looked great but were totally clogged. I really pushed on the brake pedal and absolutely nothing came out the open brake line. These are old cars and things go just get old and go bad, just like us.

(69 FHC ) #19

I had a front brake hose do that on my then 15 year old F150. In the inventory of things that can go wrong on cars and trucks it’s one not many people think of as a failure point…

(Mark Gordon) #20

Hmmm. It sounds like TR6’s have a prostate gland?