I agree with Karl they are not adds but valuable information and advice to XK owners
Karl love to hear from you with what you are currently making for XK120 roadster
terry
Australia
I agree with Karl they are not adds but valuable information and advice to XK owners
Karl love to hear from you with what you are currently making for XK120 roadster
Can you post some pics thank on this page
terry Australia
tmcgrath@bigond.com
G’day Terry,
I supply a number of the “Approved Colors” for the Tool Bags / Rolls in a XK120.
The early cars, 1949 to 1951 had
the C.2882 / A1 which is a Tan Canvas and Orange Burlap Lining. For the same time frame, there is the C.2882 / A2 which is a Black Canvas and Black Burlap Lining.
Then came the after 1952
C.2882 / B1 which is Green Canvas,
the C.2882 / B2 Grey Canvas,
the C.2882 / B3 Brown Canvas and
the C.2882 / B4 Black Canvas. All these are without the Burlap Lining.
In 1953 they moved to a Heavy Grained Black Vinyl material which had a Black inside facing,
the C.2882 / C1 and
the C.2882 / C2 Smooth Black Vinyl with a Off White inside facing.
If you want to order any of these, I can hand carry them to Australia and then post them locally. This should save you a considerable amount and also time.
You can pay me through PayPal. I will need to receive payment very soon, as I have some Tool Rolls made and the rest, if you choose a color I don’t have in stock, will have to be made.
My details:
Karl Robertson
4818 Malibu Drive
Bloomfield Hills
Michigan 48302
USA.
robertsonpdt@comcast.net
+1 248 766 9141
Thanks!
Karl
I have modified my post not to reflect any pricing. The pictures are to show interested owners and drivers what they look like only. Hope this meets your guidelines. Thank you.
I am sorry about that! Thought I had removed all the cost figures. Missed one! Changed it now. Hope you approve, thanks!
Karl
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I would like to add the XK140 Tool Bag / Roll to this discussion. It seem to me that the Bags were made from Black Vinyl with a Off-White backing. The Piping or Edging was made of the Rexine type fabric and it looks like the Buckles were the same as on the XK120 Tool Bags. The difference is in the shape of the lower piece of material holding the Tools, 2 additional pockets at the top RH portion of the bag and maybe the shape of the folding Flap. I’ll open this up as I know there will be a number of opinions and comments! What is the CORRECT type, shape and size, and finally, what was / were the materials used? Rather ask now, than to be corrected later?!!!
I have now obtained some original Tool Bags / Rolls. Definitely original! The question is, XK140 or XK150 or the same? These are NOT Xk120 Bags! So, I have to amend one of my comments from the earlier post. This is namely about the Leather Strap that goes around the Tool Roll. On the XK120 it was made from 1/2" Black Leather. I now find that the Leather Straps on these Bags is not 1/2" wide, but 5/8" wide. They have the same Buckle as the Luggage Compartment Strap. Makes sense, why have two different sizes of leather straps in the same carline. Early example of reducing complexity for the company, reducing suppliers, and simplifying assembly for the line workers. There are some other differences between the XK120 and XK140 Tool Bags / Rolls but I thought I would get it started by pointing out the first of the variations. Anyone want to add to these comments? Please feel free…
Karl,
I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that there could be other differences (apart from material and color) over the period 1949 to 1954. Jaguar often had some form of “evolutionary development”. Looking at the material of the final version for the XK 120 (black with cream lining), we know that this was continued for the roll of the XK 140 (apart from a change of pocket dimensions). So the Buckle might have changed as well for this final version, on its way to become the XK 140 Buckle…
I haven’t investigated this item so no proof from my side.
Bob K.
Thank you Bob!
You are absolutely right. There are quite a few differences and I am in the process of trying to list them here. I will be in a better position to do that in a few days. The material was essentially the same, Light Grained Black Vinyl with a Off-White Lining. Somewhere in the next step, they (Jaguar) must have decided to go for a Coarser Grain Black Vinyl with the Off-White Lining. There are some “original” bags made from a material that looks like woven canvas or burlap, coated with a Cellulose Black coating and appears to have been used for a short period of time. It must have been obvious that this material, more like a Rexine, was not durable enough for the particular application, and then Jaguar shifted to a more durable, and probably, less expensive vinyl fabric. Vinyl was just starting to be used in many other applications and produced in much larger quantities. Therefore, cheaper per foot or square yard.
Again, some of these comments are purely mine and until someone with a better source of information comes forward, this is where I am today. Thank you.
P.S. What you refer to as the XK140 Buckle, I have found to be, is in fact the XK120 5/8" Luggage Compartment Strap Buckle! Looks like Jaguar upgraded their Tool Roll Strap from 1/2" to a 5/8" Strap. The earlier XK120 Tool Bag Strap always looked a bit too fine, and frail. From the number of examples I have seen fail, this is again, probably the case.
KARL,
All XK140, XK150, 3.8 E-type and 4.2 E-type use the same Tool Roll Jaguar Part No C.5578
It is ‘functionally’ different from the XK120 Tool Roll C.2882, thus the new part number. The functional difference in this case relates to being of a different, albeit similar stitching pattern, and number of pockets. Other detail such as material used, colours, straps, buckles etc dont change the Jaguar Part Number as these do not affect its functionality. For those interested in AUTHENTICITY however, such detail re materials, colours, buckles etc is important, as is the case with all the variants of the C.2882 XK120 Tool Roll.
First up - ALL C.5578 Tool Rolls are made of REXINE, and most definately not made of Vinyl or any other similar modern material. I suggest you seek out a technical paper that fully describes what REXINE is, being a material made from natural components and not synthetics such as vinyl. Same case with your XK120 C1/C2 tool rolls - these also were made of REXINE, and not BLack Vinyl as you claim in your advertisement.
The challenge is to source some original (correct colour/pattern/thickness) Rexine which is impossible, or seek out a modern/available material that is as good an appearance match as possible to the original REXINE. Note REXINE was originally made in different colours, different thicknesses and had different textures/patterns applied to its outer skin. As you point out, the binding material on both C2882 and C5578 Tool Rolls is also REXINE, but clearly much thinner and less impregnated than the main body tool roll Rexine.
Over the Oct 1954 to July 1968 period of C5578 Tool Rolls there were minor variations in the REXINE material used, but nothing significant re the different colours/materials used on C2882 XK120 Tool Rolls. The most obvious colour variation - always black, is the amount of bleed or not, through to the natural cotton underside lining, and that can be very deceptive with surviving originals, where the level of Rexine degradation varies considerably. There are differences in the strap and the buckle used over the 1954 to 1968 period for those concerned about this most important aspect of authenticity, simply NOT addressed by any of the readily available commercial C5578 reproductions. The modern material as used by most of the commercial C5578 reproductions - surely a common supplier??? - is ‘reasonably’ accurate material concept/appearance, albeit no better match for the 1950s originals versus the 1960s originals. Still its far better - in my opinion - than a number of the ‘poor’ efforts with commercially available modern vinyl, and indeed some are not all that accurate with their pattern.
So a good challenge to come up with something ‘better’ re the material used than the commercially readily available C5578 Reproductions, and also a more accurate understanding/reproduction of the differing straps/buckles used over 1954-68 period, but at least they are usually an accurate pattern…
Good luck in doing something better, as the most difficult aspect is finding something that is a better match of the original, no longer made, REXINE…
See below - this is an original known chassis no/date XK140 Tool Roll made of 1955 REXINE, in my collection and in staggeringly good surviving 68 year old condition, given the ‘natural’ materials used, do degrade/breakdown…
By way of contrast, not much - see also my June 1966 4.2 E-type C5578, still REXINE, but again in amazingly good condition 57 year old survivor (been well looked after/stored since acquired in 1975 when only 9 years old), with subtle variations to texture, and shade of colour of cotton lining, and note different buckle - but still same C5578
Roger,
Now understand that there’s apparently no overlap in use of material between the final version of the XK 120 tool roll (introduced early to mid 1954) and the XK 140 tool roll (from October 1954).
It wasn’t clear to me that the material itself changed from Vynide to Rexine (you also don’t mention Rexine in the otherwise perfect description in Original Jaguar XK Third Revised Edition). Photos 5 and 7 on page 296 of the "final’ XK 120 version and the XK 140 version, show a remarkable resemblance. But apparently the material is different.
Bob K.
You have caught me out Bob, but in my defense my Chapter on XK Tool Kits in Original Jaguar XK (Third Edition) was written back in early 2012 and in its day was very much the first and definitive effort in documenting XK tool kits in such detail - and as with all such pioneering efforts, inevitably a few errors have come to light including the INCORRECT reference that these last variant C.2882 XK120 Tool Rolls were made from VYNIDE. They were not, as per my previous posting they were made from REXINE, and yes, you are 100% correct the REXINE as used for the last variant 1954 XK120 C.2882 Tool Rolls was exactly the same as the REXINE used for the first variant 1954/5 XK140 C5578 Tool Rolls. I was never happy with the claim of Vynide being used, as vynide is an ICI vinyl/pvc artificial material, which these 1954 XK120 tool rolls were clearly not, so shortly after the 2012 publication I embarked on a considerable amount of additional research in order to refine/improve areas I had noted already as ‘need more work’, and indeed to better address areas of uncertainty. My breakthrough happened when I acquired a very detailed technical paper on REXINE and how it was made, and once I fully understood this patented special material it allowed the 1954 XK120 tool roll material to be conclusively identified as REXINE, and indeed other research has also revealed different grades and colours of Rexine being used in various other trim areas of SS Jaguar and 1950s XKs and Saloons. The use of Rexine for C5578 Tool Rolls up to 1968 is also conclusive, albeit understanding the construction and manufacturing of this material helps to appreciate the minor detail variations you see in the C5578 Tool Roll over this 1954-1968 period of use…
But a SCOOP bit of information I have not publicly revealed before is that the very last C5578 Tool Rolls, as supplied to the very last Series 1-1/2 E-types (dont know exactly, but cannot be more than the last month or two to July 1968) - were indeed made of VYNIDE. These are RARE, given Series 1-1/2 E-types exported to USA/Canada did not get any Tool Roll/Kit at all, so we are looking for a couple months only of RHD E-types, and European market LHD E-types. Now the new ‘abbreviated’ C31164 Tool Roll as introduced for Series 2 E-types and XJ6 in August 1968 (again not supplied to USA/Canada) was also made of VYNIDE… See picture following of a C.5578 tool roll made out of VYNIDE that I acquired locally, ex a very late 1968 Series 1-1/2 E-type sold new in Australia - as acquired (I have since replaced a couple of incorrect tools)…
I have only ever seen mine (as pictured) and one other here in Australia, that owner quite understandably 
wishes to keep with his 1968 S1-1/2 E-type. Would love to hear of any others out there, but wont be found in North America…
REXINE was the name of the company that made their patented range-of-materials/process originally from the 1910s onwards, but was taken over by ICI in the 1930s who continued to make same and expanded range of materials but now using REXINE as product range name (not a brand anymore). - see advert from 1920 before ICI takeover…
But ICI was later on more into developing/marketing synthetic vinyl/plastic materials, and indeed VYNIDE was such a synthetic faux-leather product-range name made by ICI that superseded/killed off the Rexine range of product…
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Roger,
Thanks for the update: it all becomes clear now.
The reason I made my initial remark to Karl was that I’m getting more and more convinced that the element of “evolutionary innovation” within Jaguar is leading in many ways.
There are so many things that I don’t know about Jaguar, but every time I’m surprised about the fact that what I regarded as a “new innovation” came from another existing solution that Jaguar already had.
Another example: we recently had a discussion running about the seats of the C type whereby we also mentioned that tools were kept beneath the passenger seat (to fulfill the Le Mans requirements). I thought that was a “quick solution” found by some Jaguar engineer for the occasion, until I recently read that the 1938 SS100 had the tools and jack beneath the passenger seat…
There’s nothing new under the sun.
Bob K.
Actually the 1935 SS.90 was the first - and had two Tool Boxes, one underneath both drivers and passenger seats…
The SS100 - all 1936 to 1939, only had ONE tool locker under the Passenger seat, and as you can see in attached photo it was a bit of a squeeze fitting the Tool Roll/Kit, the Jack and Handle, and the Tyre Pump. Fortunately the Starting Handle was stowed elsewhere…
A couple of years ago I spent a lot of time trying to source a decent Rexine substitute with a light cream backing, a combination most of the British car industry used to use for a whole spectrum of products, with zero success. My main target was to find a material to replicate original AC Cobra weathergear, which would command high prices making manufacture feasible. Unfortunately this was simply not possible, with Manchester’s once mighty textile industry now a shadow of its former self. The best you can get is a black vinyl with a mid grey backing.
Some years ago now, a group of people associated with WO Bentleys (1920-30s) put in a huge effort researching and eventually locating the plant used to make REXINE, and after a lot of effort were able to reproduce authentic REXINE as used on the WO BENTLEYS fabric (Rexine) covered bodies, but as before, Rexine could be made in various colours, various thicknesses and various rolled on surface textures, and that used for 1954 XK120, all XK140 and XK150 and 3.8 & 4.2 E-type Tool Rolls is much thicker… But I always wondered whether if some business so inclined, could tap into that surviving knowledge and plant, and set up a run of Tool Roll replica REXINE… ??
Very similar materials are still produced for antique book binding/restoration that can be a really good match for the far lighter grade of Black Rexine as used to bind the edges of these XK and E-type Tool Rolls, and success or otherwise in sourcing/using one of these book-binding Rexine style materials is another aspect when seeking a ‘true to original’ reproduction tool roll…
But the main material, I agree, the current goal is to find a better apperance/texture/colour embossed black vinyl, with a more accurate appearance/texture - I would say cream, not grey, backing…
The readily available reproduction tool rolls for E-types is one of the better efforts I have seen, but still a long way short of what I would have thought was achievable to have something more authentic.
And lets be well aware that the original BLack/textured RExine used in 1954/5 Tool Rolls is not excatly the same as used in the 1960s. With my E-type writings on Tool Kits I simplify the E-type evolution to two variants of Rexine, two variants of the belt, and two variants of the Buckle - all using same edge binding… Next time I update my XK Tool Kits writings/publications I will go into these 1950s Tool Roll variations in a lot more detail than I have in past…
I was intending to do so for the next update/reissue of Philip Porters Jaguar Original XK, but unfortunately that book has recently been reprinted still using my original June 2012 Chapters without any of my planned updates, and I hate to say it, a few corrections as well…
So my intention is to keep producing my own series of standalone Tool Kit booklets, model by model… having now published one on Mark IV (1945-1949), one on Mark V (1949-1951), one on Mark 1 (1955-1959) and almost finished DRAFT on Mark 2 & 240/340 (1959-1969) with updates on XKs and E-types planned down the track…
But XK owners should be aware, that although XK Tool Rolls are not included (of course) in my Mark V and Mark 1 Tool Kits booklets, there is a lot of age related relevance of Mark V tools with XK120 tools, and a lot of age related relevance of Mark 1 tools with XK140/150 tools…