Once installed, how hard is it to retrofit back to points / capacitor ignition if that becomes an issue?
The 123 is a complete drop in distributor, so changing back would just mean swapping your old distributor back in, connecting it, and setting the timing.
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By all means, drive old cars!
But, eliminating p&c means youâll get to drive it farther, with less hassle⌠itâs a win-win!!
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If you obtain a spare distributor base plate you can mount the points and condenser to it and you will only have to undo two screws to replace the Pertronix with points.
If you take the trouble to gap the points and set the timing using that spare plate you should be able to just pop it in and go.
Just be sure not to drop one of those tiny screws into the distributor or the project will take a lot longer.
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What about an EDIS?
evil grinâŚ
Walter the LU-166A is what I put in my E probably 16 years ago now. I left it with the stock coil and no other changes to the car. Soon after I put the same type unit only for the Delco 4 cyl distributor in my '71 and '74 Vega. No problem with any of them since and the Vegaâs are every day cars with thousands of hot Houston traffic miles every year. It was literally just as easy putting the new Pertronix in each distributor as it was to change out points every time they went bad in the old system. Pull out the old breaker plate and wires, put in the new plate, attach the sensor module to the plate, slide the magnet piece onto the distributor shaft, gap check the distance between the magnet piece and sensor, run the red wire to the + side of the coil and black wire to the - side of the coil, set the timing and you are done for years at least from my experience with 3 cars. My '75 Cosworth Vega has the first Delco electronic ignition system. It too is a pretty reliable system but not as simple and reliable as the Pertronix. I have had modules and pole piece go bad in it. I sometimes think about getting points type Vega distributor for it and swapping it over to Pertronix too.
David
68 E-type FHC
http://shop.pertronix.com/pertronix-lu-166a-ignitor-lucas-6-cyl.html#.W3X9jtJKjrc
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Thanks David. Seems easy enough. It interesting you have 2 vintage Vegas. During the summer before entering college I worked nights at the GM motor plant here in Buffalo. My job was to use a crude go/no go gauge to set the gap between the overhead cam lobe and the valve opening mechanism on the then innovative Vega engine. It now seems terribly imprecise to have had an 18 year old kid performing this task for 10 hours in the middle of the night. I think it was the first year of production and there were often issues on the line. We would have to lift the entire cam assembly off a pallet but it on the bench, make the adjustments then restack on an outbound pallet. Watching robot manufacturing at BMW and Porsche factories it amazes me how far we have come. Thanks for the memories David.
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Is there any worthy advantage to the added expense of this 123 electronic distributor? https://www.sngbarratt.com/us/#!/English/parts/43a1c25b-7ed5-43a8-89c9-371962b8b84a
Other than perhaps more tuneabilityâŚI doubt it.
Walter,
I see that SNG lists 4 variants. I donât know what the difference is between the 2 least expensive models, and a quick scan of the web site didnât shed any light on it for me. Both appear to be the original model that has 16 fixed advance curves to choose from, selected via switches. If they remain the same as the one I bought for my XK140 5 years or so ago, then (a) most of the curves are rather aggressive for street use, so you end up with only a few to choose from, and (b) you have to remove the distributor to change the switches, so experimentation is only for those with time on their hands. However, they are easy to install, and workâŚ
The TUNE variant (which you provided the link to) offers user configurable advance curves. You can specify any advance curve you want via a laptop connected via a USB link. Experimentation is definitely feasible and can be rewarding. The distributor can store 2 separate curves (e.g. one for road and one for track, or one for sea level and one for altitude) and switch between them just by moving a wire.
The final version, the TUNE+ is also fully configurable, but this time communications is by Bluetooth to an App on your phone. It only supports one curve, but is fully configurable. I just installed a TUNE+ in my '69 E, and the jury is out on whether itâs any good or not. Iâve had lots of problems communicating reliably with it. I have an Android phone whoâs OS is based on Android v7.0. If you go to 123âs web site there is a small note that says they cannot guarantee that it works with Android v7.0 because of some bugs in Bluetooth support in that release. With more Android phones currently running v7.0 than any other version youâd think this would merit a mention in the customer documentation that comes with the device, and some suggestions for possible workarounds.After 2 days scouring the net for Bluetooth bugs in Android v7, I stumbled on a workaround that is showing some promise. I was able to establish a connection to the 123\TUNE+ and maintain it for more than a minute (which had been my previous personal best!).
In a way, this Android 7.0 incompatibility issue is typical of my (admittedly limited) experience with the 123 products. The customer documentation is lacking, and what there is, is poor. The documentation doesnât keep up with the software - the configuration screens for the 123\TUNE+ bear little resemblance to the ones in the documentation. Another example - there is nothing in the customer documentation about the technique required to reset the device - again, I stumbled upon it in a web search, but it wasnât from the manufacturer. If you canât reset the device, you will never recover from the Android 7.0 compatibility problem, even if you implement the workaround⌠Once set up, the distributors seem to do what theyâre programmed to do, so that is probably the most important thing. Unfortunately, I still have a bad taste in my mouth about all the hassle of getting it to work at all. Two evening ago I was within 10 minutes of going back to points and condensor. Fortunately for the 123, the heavens opened and heavy rain cut short my spell in the garage. That evening I found another work around on line, that gave the 123 a reprieve. Itâs not home and dry yet, but thereâs hopeâŚ
-David
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My preference is for the USB TUNE versions. I havenât fitted one of the bluetooth ones, but Iâve read that various people had connectivity issues.
The TUNE variants allow you to store two curves, so you can set one for track and one for regular traffic. The main reason I prefer the TUNE versions is that you can set a rev limiter.
Walter that is interesting story. I wonder if you checked the head on the engine in my '71 ?
A few years ago I got to go into the GM facility and see the first Vega, Cosworth Vega and many others. One of the most interesting to me was to see the XP-898. It has an all aluminium engine with a cross flow OHC Hemi head. This is the engine I hear that Chevrolet really wanted to use in the Vega until the bean counters and Ed Cole stuck their nose in things too far. If they had done this the Vega story probably would have been quite different.
David
68 E-type FHC
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Hi
Does 123 utilize the vacuum feed ? And I assume static timing is the first step ?
Patrick
'66 fhc
And, at least as regards the plastic body panels, it took them till the Saturn to get it right. The Fiero did indeed did it first, but the car was massively heavy.
Once done, Im amazed any body panels arenât plastic! One of my most cherushed memories was touring the Spring Hill pkant, in â94, at the Homecoming.
Yes, the TUNE has a vacuum port, and you can program that. Static timing is the first step, and they have an LED built in, so you donât need a test light.
Electronic ignition (a 123) probably saved what little sanity I have and certainly saved my marriage.
Pick a curve. Install the dizzie. Do a rough static timing using the led light in it*, then set the max advance at 3,000 rpm you think you want, with a timing light. Drive. Adjust a little if you think you should. Done.
- The led light in mine is broken. So you donât even need that!
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Thanks David for the detailed insights! Iâm sure my skills are far less durable than yoursâsounds like something I should avoid for now.
HaâŚthe threads on 123, Pertronix, Mallory etc are short ones cuz no one has any answers or info.
P &C for me !! I can fix emâŚpeople can help,.
Nick
I submit theyâre short, because, overall, all electronic ignition systems are far and away superior, and dont NEED as much explanationâŚ