I’ve noticed that the signal indicators on the dash (the green arrows for left and right) do not flash when the turn signals are in use. Any thoughts on where to begin searching for the issue?
I think checking the turn signal Can (sorry can’t think of what else to cal it-Alzheimers) since it’s easiest to check then your likely looking at checking the bulbs. Since it would be strange for both to go out at the same time it’s probably not that but those are the two things I check first.
Thanks. After writing this, I immediately went an pulled the flasher relay (no worries, I forgot what I went out to the garage for initially). It is clearly not original to the car, but I’m not sure how to test it, but for $10 I might just run to O’Reilly’s and pick one up to test.
I had exactly this Fault just a few weeks ago, swapped the flasher relay ‘can’ for a new one, which are very cheap, and easy plug in swap and situation was resolved. My relay was mounted close to the headlamp dip flick switch on my S1.5
Since you have a Series 2, first try the hazard warning light switch. If the warning lights now flash, the problem is most likely the flasher relay. You can confirm this by removing the hazard relay (located on the back wall of the fuse blocks behind the gauge panel) with the flasher relay (under the left edge of the dash beneath the underdash hardura). The cans for the two relays are different, but they are interchangeable for the test. If the warning lights work with the hazards, but not the indicators, and you’ve eliminated the flasher relay as the source of the problem, it’s likely to be your indicator stalk switch (which I seem to recall you replaced a short while ago) or its wiring.
And don’t get the digital micro board one it won’t work right
Get the old fashioned style
Any distributor yet? It’s raining I have time😀
Ok, I’m officially confused now. I jut got back from O’Reilly’s and replacing the flasher relay and testing the turn signals. The turn signals still flash like the did before, but the indicator lights on the dashboard still do not flash. While I missed your note about using the hazard relay, I think I still eliminated the flasher relay as the source of the problem.
I’m confused on how it could be the turn signal stalk on the steering wheel, since the turn signals work when the stalk is moved up or down. I also just tested the hazards and they seem to be working fine too. I guess it could be the indicator bulbs…how does one go about getting to them?
David made a very good point, do the indicator lights on the dash work with the hazards? If they do then it’s not the bulbs. The only way to access the indicator bulbs is from the top which means that the dash top has to be removed. A bit of a PITA because there are lots of little things that have to be removed to get it off.
The indicator lights do not light up with the hazards. That leaves either a wiring issue or burnt out bulbs. How does one get to those buggers?
See the below diagram for the wiring of the dash indicators. It’s entirely possible for the indicator lights to not function while the turn signals function properly. The indicator lights are fed by separate wires from the turn signal switch and wind up at the “P” terminal on the flasher can.
Apologies for the less than sterling photocopy of the circuit diagram.
Do the indicator lights illuminate when you turn on the hazard warning switch?
Thanks for the diagram, it appears we have the same wiring diagrams.
Lest anyone think I just sitting here waiting for answers, I can tell you that I’ve traced the problem and it isn’t burnt out bulbs.
When I mentioned wiring problems, I was concerned (rightly so it now appears) about something that I had found but hadn’t been able to trace down previously. See pic below. Several weeks ago when replacing the steering column and turn signal assembly, I had noticed these two green wires unattached. They did not do anything when inserted into the two female connectors that are also empty, so I forgot about them (for the time being)
After reading all of the comments and hints here, I went out to do some additional testing. First, did either of these two wires carry any current? I tried with the ignition off, the ignition on, and the ignition on and both turn signals flashing…no current detected.
Then I went and dragged out my 12 volt transformer and attached it to ground (car battery disconnected) and as I touched the positive wire to each of the two green wires, one at a time the dash indicator lights came on. This made me wonder why the flash relay wasn’t doing the same thing. As I unplugged the new relay in the base, I looked for the three sets of wires that should be wired to this base. Here is what I found as I twisted it around.
There were two green wires cut at the base of the flasher relay. Why that would happen I have no idea, but with the gremlins and skeletons I’ve found so far, I am not shocked. Obviously, I will be opening up this base to re-wire the two turn signal wires back into place.
Thanks to all for the assist, without your comments and suggestions I wouldn’t have thought about this issue.
Good detective work! I should also apologize for an error in my previous comment concerning the Hazards. The Hazards do NOT use the green arrows as warning lamps - they have a separate red lamp on the dash - my memory cells in regression again… However, my advice to swap the hazard flasher with the direction flasher relay is still good, though you are now past that point. I remember wondering at the time if those two disconnect green wires might be the flasher warning wires as they look to be Light Green, rather than Green, but I didn’t see any tracer color on them. Why anyone would have cut them, I don’t know. The arrow warning lights are hardly usable as general purpose warnings because the other side of the bulb is only grounded if the direction indicator stalk is moved Left or Right. If you find the arrow lights still don’t work after reconnecting the light green wires, you may have to trace the wires to the other side of the bulbs (B/W becoming LG/Y) and (B/R becoming LG/U) as the previous owner may have hacked them too… Good luck.
You’re not the only one, I also forgot the hazards lit a separate bulb in the dash.
I disconnected the flasher relay socket (one screw through the center to the a-pillar area). It is riveted shut and no way to open easily. I have purchased a $3.50 three blade socket (female) and plan to temporarily wire things up to see if they work. I’m having a difficult time finding either the part number for the socket or the socket itself on any of the usual sellers sites. Any help there will be appreciated!
Now I’m frustrated.
I purchased an inexpensive three prong socket to hold the flasher relay (both old and new were tried). I followed the wiring diagram with the two light green wires on the center blade and the dark green with brown stripe on one blade and the solid dark green on the other blade. When I turned on the ignition and tried the turn signals, both dash indicator lights blinked at the same time. If I remove one of the two light green wires, the indicator light for that side flashes BUT it flashes regardless of position of left or right on the turn signal stem.
I managed to open up the old base and found the two light green wires joined on the copper contact with a small dab of solder, same for the other two wires.
Interestingly, the issue is only with the dash indicator lights…meaning when the turn signal stem is set for a right turn, the front and rear right indicator lights work, same for the left. It is only the dash lights that are not working properly, so that would seem to eliminate the wiring on the turn signal indicator itself from being the issue.
I understand your frustration. Slow and systematic is the only way to go with the electrics, particularly if they’ve been butchered by a previous owner, as I’m sure you know. I’d recommend the following:
The terminals of your flasher relay should be labelled. Make sure that with your socket that the dark green wire is connected to the “B” terminal of the flasher (sometimes labelled X). Make sure the two light green wires are connected to the P terminal of the flasher unit. make sure the Green/Brown wire is connected to the L terminal. If not, rewire your test socket appropriately.
Assuming the above check passed, the problem is most likely to be with the wiring of the indicator stalk. As I mentioned in my last post, I would not be surprised if your Previous owner has hacked away at the wires that go between the other side of each warning bulb and the indicator stalk. Just because the indicators on the car work, this says nothing about the connections to the warning lights. They are completely independent circuits. The diagram of the switch on the wiring diagram is not intuitive, so I will try to explain here how it works:
When the indicator stalk is in the Turn Right position, the switch connects the GN wire from the flasher relay to the GW wire that goes to the front and rear RH flashers on the car. At the same time, it also connects (secondary connection) the LGY wire to the ground next to it in the diagram. The LGY wire is supposed to connect to a BW wire which goes to the RH warning light. The other side of that light is permanently connected via the LG wire you just fixed (the one that was cut) to the warning lamp output P of the flasher relay. So, when the LGY wire is grounded, the RH warning light receives the flashing signal from P on the relay. The opposite happens when the stalk is in the Left position.
NOTE: Both warning lights are permanently connected via the two LG wires to the P output of the flasher relay. If the P output is flashing on/off, as it does whichever direction you are turning, BOTH lamps see the flashing signal. The only reason they don’t both flash is that only one of them should be grounded on the other side of the bulb via the secondary connections on the indicator switch described above.
Judging by your symptoms, the BW and BR wires from the warning lamps are not connected to the LGY and LGU wires on the indicator switch, and are receiving a ground signal from elsewhere, thereby causing them to flash all the time. It would not surprise me if the PO wired both BW and BR wire to ground, as he may have been trying to re-purpose the arrow indicators - hence the reason he chopped the LG wires. I can’t get inside the mind of this PO, but I expect you will find more hacks in this area.
Thank you for this input. I’m going to take it step by step and not assume too many hacks by the PO. Time will tell if I eat those words. On the first step I want to point out what I know and what I try. First, I’m now wondering if this socket for the relay is even original. It does not have B, P, and L - it has 1, 2, and 3.
Using the orientation of the socket in your diagram my 1 (your B) has the dark green wire (so far so good), my 2 (your L) has both light green wires (not so good), finally my 3 (your P) has the green/brown wire.
Unfortunately, when I first re-wired this new socket I was convinced it would work and I butt connected all the wires. I have since cut them off and now I’m using alligator clipped patch wires. I’m headed back out to the garage to try your wiring arrangement to see what happens.
UPDATE - well that was fast and uneventful. When I wired it the way the diagram depicts, nothing worked. Meaning, not the dash indicators or the front/rear turn signal lights.
When I wired it the way the old socket previously was, then the external lights flash but both dash indicators flash at the same time regardless of direction.
Dumb question - Are all three bladed turn signal relays the same?
I would not take the physical orientation of the pins as a guide. Wiring diagrams don’t reflect physical orientation. Are you saying that the terminals on the flasher device itself aren’t labelled? I would expect then to be stamped on the base or on the side of the can. Then just confirm that the correct wire color goes to each terminal. I suspect that you probably have the relay connected correctly (as the car’s indicators work), but my money is on the BW and BR sides of the warning lamps being permanently grounded, possibly by a single wire to the back of the gauge panel.
Sounds like I need to figure out how to get to the back of the dashboard to check continuity and grounding of these wires. Haven’t ever done that, but I guess I’ll read up.
I stand corrected, the flasher relays do have letter stamped on them. The old one (not original) that was in the car is marked, L, P, and X. The new one bought today is marked the same.
When I align the letter on the relay to the wiring that I did originally with the socket, it lines up exactly the way that results in both indicator lights flashing at the same time while the external light work properly.
Based on what you’ve said and how I understand it, that would seem to indicate that one or both of the indicator lights are grounded?