I have been complaining for a while now about my poor
steering so today I took off the front wheels and looked at
the steering rack at the same time. I dont know much about
steering racks but it seemed ok. when the wheels were off
and I turned the steering wheel there was no looseness.
my iner tires are used up and I really havnt driven much at
all
with the car in two years.
so I am wondering if bad alignment alone can cause looseness
or maybe there was no looseness when the wheels were off
because there was no weight???–
89 soverign
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In reply to a message from jameson sent Sat 20 Oct 2007:
Did you look at the upper wishbone (control arm, or A frame)
bushings while you had the wheels off? If they get loose and
develop clearance, they will cause a negative camber and the inside
tread will wear fast.–
The original message included these comments:
I have been complaining for a while now about my poor
steering so today I took off the front wheels and looked at
the steering rack at the same time. I dont know much about
steering racks but it seemed ok. when the wheels were off
and I turned the steering wheel there was no looseness.
my iner tires are used up and I really havnt driven much at
all
with the car in two years.
so I am wondering if bad alignment alone can cause looseness
or maybe there was no looseness when the wheels were off
because there was no weight???
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In reply to a message from jameson sent Sat 20 Oct 2007:
With the wheels off the ground, you will not see any ‘slop’
in the steering because it is not under load.
Excessive wear on the inner shoulders of the front tyres in
my experience was due to inadequate Toe-in on the front
wheels. When I was experimenting with different Toe
settings, that inadequate Toe-in was also accompanied by
‘heavy’ steering feel which presumably requires more effort
at the steering wheel to turn the road wheels. Worse, the
steering tended to wander (camber chase) and needed a firm
grip on the steering wheel and constant small adjustments to
keep it going in a straight line.
Conversely, when I cranked in too much Toe-in, the steering
became ‘light’ - even ‘skittish’ - and steering wheel effort
seemed much reduced to divert from the straight ahead position.
I’m not sure if your definition of ‘poor steering’ matches
either of these extremes I describe.–
The original message included these comments:
I have been complaining for a while now about my poor
steering so today I took off the front wheels and looked at
the steering rack at the same time. I dont know much about
steering racks but it seemed ok. when the wheels were off
and I turned the steering wheel there was no looseness.
my iner tires are used up and I really havnt driven much at
all
so I am wondering if bad alignment alone can cause looseness
or maybe there was no looseness when the wheels were off
because there was no weight???
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In reply to a message from jameson sent Sat 20 Oct 2007:
The steering rack is rubber mounted (badly) and this allows a
ridiculous amount of sideways movement once the rubber ages. Mine
was moving about half an inch when I wiggled the steering wheel
with the wheels on the ground. The car wandered and was almost
impossible to drive in a straight line. Initially I made 2 big 3mm
thick split washers and fitted one at each mounting in the gap that
develops between the flange of the rubber bush and the flange at
the end of the rack. This helped a bit, but then I read a previous
post on this forum about packing the gaps with epoxy putty!! The
putty is the type you kneed like dough till the 2 parts mix, and it
sets rock hard after a short time. I rolled it into a thin sausage,
wrapped it around the gaps, forced it in, smoothed it off, then
rubbed dirt into it to disguise it. The difference is amazing, and
the steering is sharper than it ever was. I was worried that
this ‘‘solid’’ mounting would transmit noise though the steering,
but its just as smooth as ever.–
The original message included these comments:
I have been complaining for a while now about my poor
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In reply to a message from goldstar sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
I keep on reading about the gap but where is this gap located??–
The original message included these comments:
The steering rack is rubber mounted (badly) and this allows a
ridiculous amount of sideways movement once the rubber ages. Mine
was moving about half an inch when I wiggled the steering wheel
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In reply to a message from jameson sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
You need to lie under the car, and look at the mountings whilst
someone heaves the steering from side to side with the wheels on
the ground or on ramps. When the rack moves to the left, a gap
opens up at the right hand mounting thrust flange and vice versa.
I suspect the earlier xj40s were different, perhaps having
replaceable bushes, but the later ones are bonded to the rack,
leaving a perfectly good steering rack potential scrap just because
the rubber bushes are perished. A new rack was to cost �300 +half a
day to fit. The expoxy stuff was �1 +half an hour to install.
Some say ‘‘Heath Robinson’’ but it worked perfectly on my 94
Sovereign.–
The original message included these comments:
I keep on reading about the gap but where is this gap located??
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In reply to a message from goldstar sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
Thank god you guys don’t do this for a living. Some of the ideas
put forward are plainly dangerous. Apart from the fount of genuine
and valueable knowledge from BRYAN the majority of you are plainly
dangerous. Amen–
90 Sov 4 litre
Sutton, Surrey, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from plywood sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
well, this is a pretty brash statement, and I for one do take it
personally…if you think that only the posts from Bryan are of
any benefit than you live in a VERY narrow world…Bryan has
proven time and again that he is a very valuable source of
knowledge and we all are appreciative of his input…however, there
are MANY, MANY other liters that frequently post valuable
information as well every day…i will not get into a war of words
with you on this as it serves no purpose, but you can rest assured
that your asinine statement has offened many regular posters…by
the way I don’t recall seeing many posts from you offering help to
others…maybe you would rather sit back high on your perch and
judge others…–
The original message included these comments:
Thank god you guys don’t do this for a living. Some of the ideas
put forward are plainly dangerous. Apart from the fount of genuine
and valueable knowledge from BRYAN the majority of you are plainly
dangerous. Amen
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In reply to a message from Cliff Archie sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
I didn’t realise we had a health and safety officer monitoring the
forums!!
I could enlighten ‘‘plywood’’ to loads of effective ‘‘bodges’’ but he
would suffer hot flushes. Or is it just an ego thang?
Anyway I dont take it personally - just get the job done. and stay
away from ‘‘professional repairers’’ unless you want something else
broken, untightened, unconnected, lost, sheared, etc.–
The original message included these comments:
Thank god you guys don’t do this for a living. Some of the ideas
put forward are plainly dangerous. Apart from the fount of genuine
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In reply to a message from Cliff Archie sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
I am sorry, Cliffy, if you take umbrage but to consider wrapping
multiple strands of thin wire around the rack or useing JB weld,
then I’m damn glad you don’t repair cars for a living. There’s a
very old addage in the motor trade and that is ‘‘if it is such a
good idea, then jag would have done it first’’. Goldstar says after
applying JB weld ‘’ I rubbed dirt into it to disguise it’’ obviously
not too keen on having someone proper looking at it.
I worked for many years in the motor trade mostly on BMW’s Mercs,
Volvo’s and many vintage restorations. If your’e going to do the
job, DO IT PROPERLY. Remember in the UK carrying out dangerous
repairs to things such as steering, brakes and so on can result in
charges of manslaughter should an accident occur following such
poor workmanship. If my comments upset you, then tough. Do it
properly or leave it to somebody that is capable. Would you be
happy letting your wife or children out after carrying out bodges.
Nuf said Gdnight!–
90 Sov 4 litre
Sutton, Surrey, United Kingdom
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For what it is worth, I am with Plywood on this one.
Bodging your steering by replacing a bonded rubber joint with Araldite ( or
similar) and then smother it with mud/oil or whatever to hide it is plain
dangerous.
A bodge is a bodge, whoever has done it.
If you took your car to a garage and they suggested such a trick in order to
save you the cost of a new/used rack, would you have it done ?
If you sanctioned such a bodge and 500miles later (or whatever) the
‘packing’ cracked and fell out half way round a bend giving you instant
‘sloppy’ steering, would be happy once you have pulled yourself out of the
hedge ?
Brakes , tyres and steering .
3 things you do not bodge or cut costs on.
They are the only things between you and the hard stuff.
Is it any wonder used cars are viewed with so much suspicion ?
Phil>From: “goldstar” scott.mckirdy@lineone.net
To: xj40@jag-lovers.org
Subject: Re: [xj40] loose steering
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:50:56 +0200
In reply to a message from Cliff Archie sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
I didn’t realise we had a health and safety officer monitoring the
forums!!
I could enlighten ‘‘plywood’’ to loads of effective ‘‘bodges’’ but he
would suffer hot flushes. Or is it just an ego thang?
Anyway I dont take it personally - just get the job done. and stay
away from ‘‘professional repairers’’ unless you want something else
broken, untightened, unconnected, lost, sheared, etc.
The original message included these comments:
Thank god you guys don’t do this for a living. Some of the ideas
put forward are plainly dangerous. Apart from the fount of genuine
Visit the Jag Lovers homepage at http://www.jag-lovers.org for exciting
services and resources including Photo Albums, Event Diary / Calendar, On
Line Books and more !
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How were SPC1059 ‘Spacers’ fitted (new build or
retrospectively) - and what were they made of?–
The original message included these comments:
Bodging your steering by replacing a bonded rubber joint with Araldite ( or
similar) and then smother it with mud/oil or whatever to hide it is plain
dangerous.
A bodge is a bodge, whoever has done it.
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In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
i’ll reply once more to this then shut up…if you will read my
earlier reply I specifically said that if any repairs to the
steering were needed besides taking up the slack in the bushings
than proper repairs need to be made…i spent 11 years in the
safety field and would NEVER recommend (or perform) any alteration
that would be deemed unsafe…i have no ‘death wish’ and certainly
do not want to encounter any vehicle on the highway that has
serious steering problems…my understanding is the original post
was requesting a way to take up the slack in the steering rack…at
no point did the lister indicate the rack had become COMPLETELY
unattached to the rubber bushings…as has been said several times
on this forum the amount of play in the rack ‘seems’ to be
excessive…if a lister wants to try and remove some of this ‘play’
there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with trying to fill the gap with
epoxy putty or steel strands of wire…the WORST thing that could
happen is the alteration would fail and the rack would go back to
the condition it was before…it would not be any more ‘unsafe’
than it was to start with…i personaly do not have the means to
pay someone to make all of the needeed repairs to my car and/or use
genuine JAG parts…i enjoy working on my car and I do not mind
trying different methods to fix issues AS LONG AS THEY ARE
SAFE!..as Bryan has pointed out in his reply, evidently Jaguar
decided there needed to be a method to take up the slack in the
steering rack for the XJR models to afford them a ‘stiffer’ feel to
the suspension…their method was to use steel spacers…my
suggestion was try epoxy putty or strands of metal wire…both of
my methods would accomplish the same thing as the Jag spacers, so
why don’t you bash Jaguar… I honestly enjoy the interaction on
this forum (much less these days) as long as the members use some
common sense and act in a professional manner which does not
include being rude or disrespectfull of others…all emcompassing
statements about the ability of others and usefulness of posted
information should be left to personal opinion…there is nothing
wrong with pointing out your opinion about concerns over safety or
other concerns, but to imply that other listers are incompetent and
reckless is just asking for trouble…–
The original message included these comments:
Does anyone know anything about the official Jaguar ‘bodge’
for stiffening up the steering rack lateral movement on the
XJR models?
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With respect to Phil, who definitely knows what he is talking about, the
only bodge here is the original design. I’ve got this problem, and by the
weekend I’ll have finished machining solid aluminum replacements (track
style, and I could care less about more feel to the wheel) that can be
fitted to the existing rack. Very common procedure. But if I didn’t have a
lathe I would probably come up with a “bodge” like wrapping wire into the
space preciously occupied by the peccant bushing. Do you really think such a
fix is going to come loose all of a sudden? Highly unlikely, more probable
is a gradual deterioration, just like the crappy originals, which for the
past couple of weeks have made my daily jaunts on the winding roads of
central Virginia very interesting, but hardly life-threatening.
Martin Violette
'91 Sovereign
'86.5 928
Crozet, VA USA
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In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
Well, in the XJR the steering has lots of feedback from road
imperfections, only being reduced with speed. That’s why I tend to
let the steering wheel moves free (no hands on it, except at
corners) when passing through very potholed areas (at very low
speeds: 1st-2nd gear at idle).
That and the pump reliefe valve calibrated at lower pressure makes
the feel sporty but still comfortable, you just aren�t able to
drive it with the finger tip
On my behalf, I can�t see why the wire suggestion would be a bad
idea, the results are gonna be a sporty steering driveable with the
finger tip
Cheers,
Daniel–
The original message included these comments:
Does anyone know anything about the official Jaguar ‘bodge’
for stiffening up the steering rack lateral movement on the
XJR models?
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I saw this item on ebay, would this cure the loose steering
syndrome if the rack is to blame??
item # 280164506258–
89 soverign
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In reply to a message from jameson sent Thu 25 Oct 2007:
That is an anti-roll bar (sway bar) bush.
No direct affect on loose steering. You should be looking at
the steering rack / the tie-rod inner and outer joints / the
wheel bearings / or any wear in the upper and lower
wishbone ball joints and suspension bushes–
The original message included these comments:
I saw this item on ebay, would this cure the loose steering
syndrome if the rack is to blame??
item # 280164506258
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In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Thu 25 Oct 2007:
thanks bryan…
oh well I think ill put this on the to do list for next
spring…im gonna put my cat in storage for the winter next
week…–
89 soverign
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In reply to a message from Bryan N sent Mon 22 Oct 2007:
Some for sale on Ebay. They are no more than a split plastic
washer. Easy enough to make. I took the dimensions from the ones on
my mates XJR and cut them from some 1.5mm thick flexible plastic.
Outer diameter was 80mm and inner diameter 56mm. they simply fit in
the gaps between the flanges on the rack and the mountings.
Does anyone know anything about the official Jaguar ‘bodge’
for stiffening up the steering rack lateral movement on the
XJR models?
How were SPC1059 ‘Spacers’ fitted (new build or
retrospectively) - and what were they made of?
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In reply to a message from Tony Coles sent Fri 2 Nov 2007:
Tony,
Many thanks - I’ll make some from your dimensions.–
The original message included these comments:
Some for sale on Ebay. They are no more than a split plastic
washer. Easy enough to make. I took the dimensions from the ones on
my mates XJR and cut them from some 1.5mm thick flexible plastic.
Outer diameter was 80mm and inner diameter 56mm. they simply fit in
the gaps between the flanges on the rack and the mountings.
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